A few months ago I started working on a campaign idea I have always wanted to run, completely underground. One of the biggest problems in doing though was I needed a map large scale enough to handle an entire campaign but detail enough to keep a group busy without rehashing old steps every week. Could get kind of boring if the same cave has orcs one week and then bugbears the next, etc etc etc. So I started mapping out a region I call the Lake of Spires. This campaign map is actually 9 different panels put together so I could get a good idea of the direction things were headed. As far as I am aware no one has ever done a really large scale underground map, I always see maps for regions above ground. So just thought I would ask for input, maybe some people have done this before and experienced a few pitfalls or just simply have some ideas.
This map is currently less then 1/10th of the entire region to be mapped out, I figured this was a good point where people could give input.
Individual map panals are available on the site for free, don't even need to go through the hassle of registration to get. www.rpgattitude.com
Nice cave map. Reminds me a bit of some of the maps from the old DOS computer RPG, "Nahlakh", but with better detail and colour.
As far as I know, nobody has done this before. If they have, then it's certainly not going to hurt to have more maps like this - they can't be very common, and there are so many things that can be done with them in a variety of game settings and systems.
Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
"Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
"Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
As far as I know, nobody has done this before. If they have, then it's certainly not going to hurt to have more maps like this - they can't be very common, and there are so many things that can be done with them in a variety of game settings and systems.
Yeah, I have found nothing as far as what someone has done or even commented about doing, found a few posts on some forums with people looking but nothing ever saying found or they did it. I have ket any info regarding settings or system off the primary map so that others can do what they wish, I am even keeping elevation changes and labels off of it for the sake of being able to provide basically virgin maps.
Nahlakh was a great little D&D-clone game. The game was vast - hundreds of different types of monsters, each with its own unique graphics (crude, but cute), customizable character graphics, a race/class character creation system, hundreds of different weapons, a gigantic and unique spell system that encouraged experimentation, the game world was huge and difficult to map, there were a lot of books of lore that could be picked up (and optionally read - they were suitably creepy to read), there was an elaborate skill system, and it provided months or years of single-player play, and more.
It made for a cool little game, and the whole thing was programmed by one independent programmer with a little help from his brother, and distributed as freeware. The game's author still answers questions about the game and stays in touch with his games' fans - he seems like a very nice guy.
In any event, the cavern maps for that game were smaller than yours in area, but looked similar to yours in layout; the Nahlakh cavern maps felt natural and realistic in spite of the old-school DOS graphics.
DOS games did have a higher learning curve to them than more modern games, and Nahlakh provided a really huge game world... I wonder if I still have the patience to load Nahlakh back up and try playing it again?
Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
"Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
"Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
You can probably take a look at the OOP "Underdark" from the Forgotten Realms 3rd Ed. What I liked about this accessory was the attempt to break the Underdark into three regions: The Upperdark, the Middledark and (you guessed it) the Lowerdark.
Very simple maps are overlayed on the Forgotten Realms map to indicate the true expansiveness of the underdark which indeed stretches over the entire world! People seem to have a tendency to think of the underground as a small, limited space with everyone tripping over one another. In reality, you could very easily stretch this underground world over an entire planet. Explorers could quite possibly wander for days, weeks or even months with never seeing a thing. I wouldn't worry about the players retracing their steps ever if you put enough into the planning and layout of your world.
As a boost in the right direction, here are some things gleened off the Underdark Accessory:
The Upperdark -extends from the surface to a depth of about 3 miles - inhabitants more likely to have contact with the upper world (if you want to) - main import from the surface are slaves - inhabitants include chitines, dwarves, goblins, quaggoths, minotaurs, orcs, svirfneblin, stone giants and troglodytes - travel is fairly easy as a great many passages exist from point A to point B
The Middledark - lies between 3 miles and 10 miles beneath the surface - contains many of the more settled communities of underground dwellers - trade caravans and raiding parties to the surface are not uncommon - inhabitants include drow, duergar, fomorians, grimlocks, hook horrors, kuo-toa, maurs, mind flayers, orogs and umber hulks. - travel is a bit more difficult as there are not as many tunnels and passageways at this level
The Lowerdark - an almost alien-like environment extended below 10 miles - few surface dwellers ever venture this deep - life is the most harsh and the most violent at these depths - travel is very difficult unless one can pass through stone as few tunnels and passages exist - resources are scarce and air may not always be in plentiful supply - inhabitants include aboleths, avolokias, beholders, cloakers, deepspawn, derro, desmodus, destrachans, elementals, extraplanar creatures, psulons, tomb tappers and the undead.
Yeah, I have it and read it. I am just hoping to provide players with something that has a bit more appeal to the eye rather then something they have take at its word based on a verbal essay. If that makes any sense. I think maps add a lot to the personality of the game and a campaign, since I am doing something not many seem to have done... I decided to provide a map that would give a vivid scope of the environment.
If you have access to it, check out D1-2 descent into the depths of the earth (1E AD&D). There was a hex map included with it that left a lot of things up to the DM to populate if the characters got off the beaten track to the Vault of the Drow (D3).
Well...so as to comments on the map itself...it looks great. Possible things to think about:
Geology - Think about rock formations cutting through the map in certain areas, different minerals will produce different looking terrain. Also think about folding in the earth (squeezes things), and expansion (creating chasms, pits). Earthquakes and cave-ins might be nice too...maybe paths are mapped that are no longer accessible via the path the map indicates... You've already got underground water flow--which is great. Any lava flows, steam vent fields, etc?
Civilizations - Have areas been significantly modified by the races living there? Mining, magic, or construction of things like bridges?
Since you mentioned you have the Underdark accessory, I'd try translating some of the written ideas there into visual representations on your map.
Well...so as to comments on the map itself...it looks great. Possible things to think about:
Geology - Think about rock formations cutting through the map in certain areas, different minerals will produce different looking terrain. Also think about folding in the earth (squeezes things), and expansion (creating chasms, pits). Earthquakes and cave-ins might be nice too...maybe paths are mapped that are no longer accessible via the path the map indicates... You've already got underground water flow--which is great. Any lava flows, steam vent fields, etc?
Of course someone using this can cut off passages as they please and for the base maps am keeping them open, later for my own use I will put in several things to include blocked passages. Good example is on the bottom right there is a side room off a main route, on my map that is a small shrine. I don't want to force what I am doing on others if they want to use the maps. (At the same time I also want to give the maps some personality and flavor) There is going to be a small section of lava, which will of course create heavy steam areas as well. Just not mapped yet, only on the planning board at this point.
Civilizations - Have areas been significantly modified by the races living there? Mining, magic, or construction of things like bridges?
Several, I already have mapped out a Slave Market and a small hidden school of magic... The slave market is being placed this weekend, very bottom, the school is several panels away from that though. I have started working out the base idea for a small dwarven stronghold as well but that is far above this map you see now (Yes that has three distinct mines as far as I have figured).
At this point my plan is pretty simple, create a base map of the natural environment for the most part. I am also putting in the main areas of population that exist as well. From there I can determine whats been done or exists in areas based on who lives around it. Not sure if you checked out the website but this map you see here is 9 panels that have more then enough detail to allow me to come back and add all the flavor desired.
Thanks for the comments, have to admit I didn't give much thought to steam until you brought it up..
Some of you might be interested in "How to Host a Dungeon" - a sort of pen-and-paper world-building exercise/game that starts with using dice to randomly roll up a geological environment, and then model ages of stability when various generic fantasy races delve dungeons into the area, punctuated by ages of war and catastrophe, ending with a dungeon that can be used to run an RPG in.
A free version without illustrations can also be found on the website, and it's a fun little game to mess around with.
The reason I bring it up is that I can easily see the rules being modified to add civilizations and so on to the all-natural cavern map in the original post.
Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
"Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
"Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
