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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 1:54AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 11, 2010
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Hey all,Does anyone have any useful rules hacks for simplifying Type IV D&D? I love the system a lot, but find it to be very complicated, especially for new players and in higher-level play. You can read about my current string of ideas on my D&D Blog, devoted to making the game easier for new players. ALSO, I consider a lot of the 4e mechanics to be a bit overpowered on the player's side (It seems almost impossible for players to fail in any meaningful way). I think I might have a rough solution, but I want your thoughts on it. Remove the 'Add half your level' bonus from everything. If this progressive bonus is removed, player characters continue to go up in health, but their ability/defense/combat modifiers don't escalate as drastically as they normally would. They still advance and grow stronger, just nowhere near as much. This way the amount of math required in the game is reduced, so players also needn't worry about constantly escalating numbers. To offset this at higher levels, perhaps armor with increased AC or other defense bonuses can be introduced. This would also make equipment and armor seem less mundane and disposable in the eyes of players. Is any of the above worthwhile? I think it's a solid idea, but I need outside opinions as well to tweak it into something useable. Lemme know what you think. Also, if this idea has been done before, please post a link.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 2:05AM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 13, 2009
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Half level is a free bonus that everyone gets. There's no worrying. It'll go up at a rate of exactly +1/2 levels, regardless of your choices or your character.
The worrying comes from everything else. That's where people worry about excalating numbers.
At higher levels, armor already goes up in AC, both by granting a larger enhancement bonus and becoming Masterwork.
Introducing Masterwork neck-items could probably help reduce the worry, as would masterwork weapons. However, it'd require you to kill off the existing fixed for them (Expertise and Improved Defenses feats) or it'll just scale out of whack for those that take both.
Epic Dungeon Master Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen! Your Kingdom awaits!Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 1:12PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2010
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before I reverted back to 3.5 and then to our own system I had also felt 1/2 lvl was annoying. removing ti from players and monsters alike works math wise however remember that players won't feal as epic as they once did, also lvl will have less effect on the game so higher and lower lvl monsters can be used more commonly soemthing I personaly liked but some other dms and players did not
An' ye harm none, do what ye will
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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 1:13PM
#4
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The actual bonus progression "standard" is +1 per level, for all attacks and defences. All monster abilities scale in this way.
Player Characters get +1/2 per level automatically, and then players can have "fun" building up the other +1/2, including finding magic items as treasure, and using feats and stat bonuses to make choices about whether to increase faster or slower than the average, compared against other benefits.
So, if you remove +1/2 level from PCs, with no other change, the simplest matching fix is to reduce Monster gains to defences and attack bonuses by 1/2 level. That would have the side effect of making mosnters below party level slightly more of a threat and monsters above party level slightly less of a threat than RAW.
In addition, if this rule change is to cover skill checks, you need to modify the expected DCs by level in a similar way (they don't scale as fast in the first place).
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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 1:13PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2010
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also remember with this players won't get any better in there skills then they were at lvl 1 unless you give some other balence or just use 1/2 lvl for skills
An' ye harm none, do what ye will
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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 1:50PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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So in essence you've made the game more complex.
Houserules that make sweeping changes to the math rarely if ever simplify anything.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 3:22PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 11, 2010
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So in essence you've made the game more complex.
Houserules that make sweeping changes to the math rarely if ever simplify anything.
You think so?
I'd suggest the change only apply to player characters. Monsters remain unchanged, still retaining their very large bonuses, etc.
This change is suggested to strip PCs of much of their power, rendering them more ordinary.
It is a mechanical change intended to impact the game in more of an atmospheric way: PCs are still heroes, but they aren't epic paragons of mightiness. Likewise, monsters remain horrifying threats that are a real danger, not just something to be dispatched every encounter.
If power gaming is your thing, than this suggested idea holds no merit, and should be ignored.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 3:50PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2010
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if you only strip the players then MOST monsters are impossible to hit and therefor can't be used I mean at lvl 20 you would still be fighting lvl 10 monsters simply becouse a lvl 20 monster has +10 AC and to hit more then you.
Monsters gain +1 per lvl players gain 1/2 per level.
Players get 1/2 from feats magiucal gear and the such while monsters simply get the 1 per level.
If your entire goal was to make players weaker try instead removing magical gear from the mix that 1-5 to hit makes a huge difrence, and still makes monsters killable, also try simply using stronger (higher lvl) monsters
removing 1/2 lvl from only players is a bad idea it makes them pathetic and unable to kill even the minions of the monsters of there own race.
In that system I would only play a magic mistle focused mage so I could still hit stuff
(side note I have tested removing 1/2 lvl from players and monsters and it realy isn't complicated adds a few seconds of math to the dm for each monster and has no extra work for players. But again it makes level mean a lot less as players can fight monsters of twice the normal range before becoming to easy or to hard.
An' ye harm none, do what ye will
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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 3:57PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2009
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This would cause problems. Let us say we have a party of level 30 adventureres fighting a level 30 minion. They are at a -15 of their normal chance of hitting. That means they will only kill it on a natural 20. But what if you use underleveled monsters to fix the problem? We have a party of level 30 adventurers fighting a group of level 25 monsters. Then they have a (slightly) larger chance of hitting, but the level 25 monsters are doing level 25 damage against level 30 HP totals.
Houserules that make sweeping changes to the math rarely if ever simplify anything.
Yes.
If you want to make your DnD game harder, then do something else. Maybe double monster and player damage. That way, fights are faster and deadlier. Maybe just use higher leveled monsters. Do something, but do something simple. Simplifying complex games like DnD is nigh impossible without creating a complex system of simplification. It is much easier to adjust difficulty level by doing something else.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 11, 2011 - 4:09PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 11, 2010
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This would cause problems. Let us say we have a party of level 30 adventureres fighting a level 30 minion. They are at a -15 of their normal chance of hitting. That means they will only kill it on a natural 20. But what if you use underleveled monsters to fix the problem? We have a party of level 30 adventurers fighting a group of level 25 monsters. Then they have a (slightly) larger chance of hitting, but the level 25 monsters are doing level 25 damage against level 30 HP totals.
Houserules that make sweeping changes to the math rarely if ever simplify anything.
Yes.
If you want to make your DnD game harder, then do something else. Maybe double monster and player damage. That way, fights are faster and deadlier. Maybe just use higher leveled monsters. Do something, but do something simple. Simplifying complex games like DnD is nigh impossible without creating a complex system of simplification. It is much easier to adjust difficulty level by doing something else.
Yeah, that does make sense.
Obviously, at higher tiers, monsters would indeed become impossible to combat through ordinary means.
However, I'd argue against playing up to level 30 on principle. Personally, I'm not a fan of the epic tier in general. But this is my own opinion and preference.
Still, doesn't anyone think of the prospect of an 'unbeatable monster' interesting? If it cannot be killed or defeated mechanically, its only weakness and means of defeat must lay elsewhere; either in some kind of magical item, spell, or device. Plus, it reinforces the idea that some forces are simply greater than the heroes.
Obviously these kinds of mechanical changes aren't for everyone. They're about dissempowerment in a game that touts 'character empowerment' as one of its main selling features. Still, in terms of crafting a really real feeling fantasy world, it might not be a bad idea.
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