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2 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2011 - 4:05PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
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Love how grognards assume [...]
What is your definition of grognard such that you feel comfortable asserting that they all make this assumption?
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2011 - 4:19PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2007
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Love how grognards assume [...]
What is your definition of grognard such that you feel comfortable asserting that they all make this assumption?
My definition of "grognard" is "person who irrationally feels that previous version X of anything (RPGs, Music, Interpretive Dance, etc) is better than any version that has come out subsiquently, and anyone who feels otherwise is an idiot, because only the grognard's opinion is valid, end of discussion."
Is there a more specific definition when dealing with RPG grognards? I didn't mean to offend anybody who prefers old editions in a rational manner.
Salla, on minions: I typically use them as encounter filler. 'I didn't quite fill out the XP budget, not enough room left for a decent near-level monster ... sprinkle in a few minions'. Kind of like monster styrofoam packing peanuts.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2011 - 4:27PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2008
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Surely you don't mean to invalidate the original poster's opinion.
Yup.
It is not my intent to offend. However, it is also not my concern whether you get offended or not.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2011 - 5:32PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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In short, they are the people who stood by every change D&D made and are happy with Mearls's recent changes and the decision to start going retro. Setting up a bunch of polls asking if these people like everything Mearls wants to do and then getting back a "yes" does not mean that these ideas for 5e are actually good ideas. It means you've narrowed down your fans to Mearls fans.
I suppose there could be something to that. I was thinking they'd just resorted to outright falsifying the poll results. That last one, where Cook demonstrated blatant unfamiliarity with 4e, then suggested a 'new' idea that wasn't new at all, and didn't make much sense, /and/ was told so in no uncertain terms on the forums (and other forums) and comments section, and still got big aproval on the poll? That just rang false.
Retro is bad. Unbalanced is bad. Making all the rules flimsy and unusable on purpose to allow "DM freedom" to try and rule on the fly is bad. System Mastery is bad. "Rules hurt roleplay so we're allowed to make **** rules that everyone will ignore" is bad. "It doesn't matter that my designs are unbalanced and won't work in an actual gameplay setting, because they're REALISTIC and FREE and FLAVORFUL" is bad. "Magic and items and powers and classes and monsters shouldn't be held to strict formulas, we should be free to write whatever numbers we want and the DM should figure out how to balance it on his own" is bad. Pretty much everything I've read in L&L is bad, bad, bad.
You exagerate... slightly.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2011 - 5:51PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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There are things that have been... disappointing. I would hope the lessens of the Essentials mistakes would improve the new edition after 4th instead of being a foreboding of things to come.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
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Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
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They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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2 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2011 - 9:27PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2008
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Essentials forwards has been a bit messed up in some regards. I could see making an easier compatible product but renaming classes and not supporting Pre-Essentials stuff more is poor marketing.
Biggest mistake WotC made though was dropping the ball on the VT imo.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 07, 2011 - 12:00AM
#17
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Lets see if I can translate the OP in something less flamish.
- I was a fan of the previous edition
- I'm not a fan of the current edition
I don't like the direction this edition took
I'm not part of the current fanbase
- Please don't forget to expand your fanbase with the new edition.
(for example, taking a direction that people who play previous editions like)
To that, let me say:There's a difference between maintaining the current fanbase (as opposite to losing your current fanbase), and expanding your fanbase (as opposite to no new fans). Polls on the WotC website and stuff, are to maintain the current fanbase, not to expand the fanbase.
Qube's block builder: if you want to create blocks for powers, items and monsters for this forum, but don't know html "Signature in a box"
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For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint
Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment.
Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
"Some of my work:"
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"My ego in a box"
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who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
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2 years ago ::
Oct 07, 2011 - 2:32AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2009
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I don't like essentials. I really don't. I have never played an essentials character past lvl 2. Despite that, I think that this thread is completly lackinging in solid reasoning.
1. I don't like the direction the game is going in, yet I still read the forums alot and ocasionally post. Not everyone who is unhappy with the direction of the game has left.
2. Nothing is stoping you from playing a 2nd, 3rd, 3.5 or non essential 4e game with your friends. Nothing at all. The books are out there and the content is still available. Not two weeks ago my friends and I started played a 2nd edition campaign. All you need are some friends who want to do that. If you hate essentials, set up a game where no one can use essential characters. Dislike some of the eratas? ignore them. Think some feats are game breaking? Ban them. Whenever my friend DMs a campaign he always bans Changelings and Bugbears and lets players pick any other race. Why? because he thinks they are game breaking.
3. They are still making content for non essential classes. Sure, not nearly as often, but its still comming out.
4. If you don't like the new material don't buy it. I havn't purchased a single essential product. Thats my way of complaining. Sales are going to control the direction of the game.
5. There really is room for everyone. Just find people who want to play the same style campaign that you do.
Just because were not talking in person does not mean you have to be an @#$%^&*
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2 years ago ::
Oct 07, 2011 - 3:04AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2009
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EDITION WAR ALERT ! ! ! ! !
An edition war thread is being born before our eyes. Just stop.
(let it die please, this thread is a waste of electrons)
Want to know more about the history of D&D, especially how to play older editions of the game? Check out Crazy Monkey's "Tour through the editions":
http://community.wizards.com/crazymonkey/go/forum/view/133793/225799/Asylum_Play-by-Post
The current edition is BECMI, the most popular form of Basic D&D and the adventure is the classic Red Box quest to kill Bargle the evil magic user. Check it out, learn about the games roots, and enjoy the story as it unfolds.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 07, 2011 - 3:05AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2007
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I actually like many of the things the OP posts as bad, and I hope 5e does go that way. But ultimately, what might work best is a core rules book, followed by second - more complicated/realistic/simulation - "optional" rules book. Then they could better satisfy both ends of the gaming spectrum.
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