|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:36PM
#11
|
Date Joined:
Feb 22, 2011
|
Gunthar, in game mechanics, marks don't end because you no longer exist. As Mellored says, it ends when you're dead or unconscious (or once the encounter ends, but even wiping yourself from existence doesn't mean the fight is over).
In RP mechanics, I think of a mark as the idea that this target is most important. Even if they've vanished, that enemy is still thinking, "crap, this guy will be back any second, I'm sure of it" and is as such distracted slightly in attacking other targets.
EDIT: Triple-answered!
... congratulations, Monkeygentleman.
You won the unwinnable.
| monkeygentleman, you are the worst thing to happen to the CharOp forums since Mearls took over WotC.
|
Spoiler:
Show
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:38PM
#12
|
Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
|
Void defender. Gives enemies a penalty for not attacking him. Then promply goes away.
I think I can see a lot of DMs ruling against that given you have no line of effect...
Mark penalty is not dependent on line of effect. Mark punishment is, sure, but not the penalty.
A marked target can't just run behind a wall to shake the mark.
If we're going to be literal about it...what's a definition of being dead? Ceasing to exist. What does Removed From Play do? Makes you cease to exist.
Which removes the mark.
No, being dead means you're at less than negative bloodied or have failed three death saving throws. Being dead also means you're now an object. You don't evaporate in a puff of smoke or anything.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:39PM
#13
|
|
|
Keep Them Close is such an underrepresented feat, it's almost gold imo (at least sky-blue) for anything that marks repeatedly or has a very sticky mark(swordmage/battlemind, until the end of the encounter mark)......so almost every defender in the game. :D
Most defenders stay next to their marks. And most marks attack the defenders.
So it's only sky blue for those who mark at a distance. Considering the somewhat steep cost of enterance.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:41PM
#14
|
Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
|
It's also very awesome for anyone who takes (or has a party member who takes) World Serpent's Grasp.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:41PM
#15
|
Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
|
Given the keywords importance of 4th edition, cease to exist does not equal dead nor vice versa, so your argument isn't valid.
Keywords importance in 4e? Sorry, haven't heard of a rule saying that Keywords were important.
So, yes, it is valid(or at least as valid as any other claim about literal RAW overriding obvious RAI)
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
Show
Builds
Show
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:42PM
#16
|
Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
|
Given the keywords importance of 4th edition, cease to exist does not equal dead nor vice versa, so your argument isn't valid.
Keywords importance in 4e? Sorry, haven't heard of a rule saying that Keywords were important.
So, yes, it is valid(or at least as valid as any other claim about literal RAW overriding obvious RAI)
...seriously? You're the one who's making up rules about what it means to be dead in D&D.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:43PM
#17
|
|
|
Gunthar, in game mechanics, marks don't end because you no longer exist. As Mellored says, it ends when you're dead or unconscious (or once the encounter ends, but even wiping yourself from existence doesn't mean the fight is over).
Hence the emoticon, though it is an interesting philosophical point of discussion. I've thought about it a bit and if someone were abusing it I MIGHT rule that since you cease to exist you can't mark something. I'll deal with that if/when it ever comes up though. As it is now it's simple and consistent.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:45PM
#18
|
Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
|
Oh, marking something absolutely requires Line of Effect. The act of applying the mark, I mean. You can't mark someone while you're gone, but existing marks don't vanish.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:49PM
#19
|
Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2002
|
Gods your right, keywords are meaningless.
So weapons don't require weapons anymore? or you can use a melee attack at range 40 with a bow?
The fact is that the game is pretty straightforward, conditions exist, dead is a condition, cease to exist is an effect that makes it so you don't have loe or los to anyone, as described by the scion of absence. I don't see dead, I don't see unconscious. So if you want to make up rules for a home game go ahead, but I don't think you can use false assumptions to justify your argument and make it valid.
Feywild sojourn says you aren't there you are in a safe place in the feywild. Shadow jaunt makes you insubstantial. So kinda half there.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2011 - 1:53PM
#20
|
|
|
Feywild sojourn says you aren't there you are in a safe place in the feywild. Shadow jaunt makes you insubstantial. So kinda half there.
Shadow Exile turns shadow jaunt into remove from play.
What i think i like most about this build, is that it's lazy. I'm tempted to dump Str and get more Wis (and Con, for surges). -12 to hit anyone? Though that will kinda kill any low level use.
Anyone have more way's of recharging second wind?
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
|
|
|
