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Switch to Forum Live View Help improving Familiar Rider Warlord:
2 years ago  ::  Sep 27, 2011 - 11:47PM #1
satanicway
Date Joined: Jul 23, 2006
Posts: 640
I was playing with some builds at CB and i ended with a fun idea.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 6
Human, Warlord|Cavalier
Warlord Leadership: Battlefront Leader (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlord: Hybrid Warlord Fortitude
Hybrid Cavalier: Hybrid Cavalier Reflex
Human Power Selection: Bonus At-Will Power

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 19.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 16.

AC: 25 Fort: 17 Reflex: 23 Will: 20
HP: 49 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +13, Insight +13, Intimidate +12, Diplomacy +12, History +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Bluff +7, Dungeoneering +4, Endurance, Heal +4, Nature +4, Perception +6, Religion +6, Stealth, Streetwise +7, Thievery, Athletics -1

FEATS
Learned Spellcaster: Ritual Caster
Human: Learned Spellcaster
Level 1: Arcane Familiar
Level 2: Active Familiar
Level 4: Quick Familiar
Level 6: Ninth Legion Student

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Virtuous Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Direct the Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Powerful Warning
Hybrid daily 1: Glorious Charge
Hybrid utility 2: Martyr's Blessing
Hybrid encounter 3: Holy Smite
Hybrid daily 5: Scent of Victory
Hybrid utility 6: Reorient the Axis


ITEMS
Heavy Shield, Magic Finemail +2, Rhythm Blade Rapier +1, Catstep Boots (heroic tier), Amulet of Protection +2, Impenetrable Barding (heroic tier), Familiar's Baldric +1
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======



Familiar defenses:

AC:      30
Fort:    22
Reflex: 28
Will:     25

DR 5 (needs to take 10+1/2level damage to lose Familiar Mount buff)

 

Its a low lvl build right now, that im still improving. Probably i will add Nightmare Saddle and a power swap of utility power to get the wizard atwill that teleports the familiar 10 squares, and retrain one or more of the familiar feats.


Well at lvl 6 the idea of the build is to keep flying over the enemies with a Cour Attendent or Floating Weapon Familiar used as mount via Familiar Mount Ritual.

The familiar feats adds to the familiar defenses, and enables me to take a move as a minor, or to double move with a move action via Active Familiar. This way i can reach anywhere i want on battlefield without taking attacks of opportunity because i can shift the necessary distance and them move to where i need to be.

Since the Familiar have a +2 to defenses naturally (both of them) and the feats gives +2, and Familiar Baldric +1, and my defenses arent bad either, it ends being really hard to hit.
And with Impenetrable Barding, its alittle harder to be destroyed, because it needs to take 13 of damage on a single hit. (and remember that i have a defender aura to plus -2 vs melees)

Even if it hits, i can use Powerful Warning, and picking as a Theme the Guardian i can take the hit myself once per encounter. This will enable me to stay at my familiar.

Them comes how i annoy the monster team. Since the game is 3d, my aura affects all squares directly under me too, so if i fly over their heads, i will affect an area of 4x4 squares. (all 16 squares not just 12 as normal for a Large creature)
And since im a lazylord, i will just give extra attacks each of my turns, and if one enemy ever moves without shifting on my 4x4 area of threat i will punish it with a direct the strike, because im really lazy to attack myself. (In case of no allies able i can virtuos strike the enemy...)

This build isnt a real defender, its more a 5th or 6th man of the party.
The idea is to help the party controlling the battlefield wille the real defender takes the most dangerous enemy by himself.


Idk if this build can be improved in any way, but i found it really fun.
I know its not really optmical and that i still can lose everything if my familiar get hit, but thats why i invested so much in making it not get down.

One think im wondering now if i can use a Barding on it... lol






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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 12:02PM #2
Undrhil
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2007
Posts: 4,313
I don't think your Familiar is consider an Ally, is it?  If it isn't, you can't use Powerful Warning when it gets attacked.  Also, if you take the Order Adept theme, at level 5 you can retrain your level 2 Utility and get the Wizard at-will Utility you mentioned (Familiar Harrier).
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 12:04PM #3
satanicway
Date Joined: Jul 23, 2006
Posts: 640
I have finished a lvl16 version too.

Spoiler: Show


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 16
Human, Warlord|Cavalier, Knight Commander
Warlord Leadership: Battlefront Leader (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlord: Hybrid Warlord Fortitude
Hybrid Cavalier: Hybrid Cavalier Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Human Power Selection: Bonus At-Will Power
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 12, Dex 11, Int 20, Wis 14, Cha 22.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 16.


AC: 35 Fort: 29 Reflex: 32 Will: 30
HP: 110 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 29

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +15, Insight +19, Intimidate +21, Diplomacy +19, History +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +13, Bluff +16, Dungeoneering +10, Endurance +5, Heal +10, Perception +12, Religion +13, Stealth +4, Streetwise +14, Thievery +4, Athletics +3

FEATS
Learned Spellcaster: Ritual Caster
Human: Learned Spellcaster
Level 1: Arcane Familiar
Level 2: Active Familiar
Level 4: Quick Familiar
Level 6: Ninth Legion Student
Level 8: Hybrid Talent
Level 10: Improved Defenses
Level 11: Shardbound Familiar (Eberron)
Level 12: Shield Mastery
Level 14: Lend Might
Level 16: Skill Power

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Virtuous Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Direct the Strike
Skill Power: Practiced Rider
Hybrid encounter 1: Powerful Warning
Hybrid daily 1: Glorious Charge
Hybrid utility 2: Martyr's Blessing
Hybrid encounter 3: Holy Smite
Hybrid daily 5: Scent of Victory
Hybrid utility 6: Reorient the Axis
Hybrid encounter 7: Friendly Fire
Hybrid daily 9: Warlord's Recovery
Hybrid utility 10: Dragonshard Shield
Hybrid encounter 13: Pincer Maneuver (replaces Powerful Warning)
Hybrid daily 15: Divine Vengeance (replaces Glorious Charge)
Hybrid utility 16: Warning Shout

ITEMS
Heavy Shield, Catstep Boots (heroic tier), Chieftain's Javelin +3, Bracers of Tactical Blows (heroic tier), Amulet of Warding +3, Belt of Vim (heroic tier), Martyr's Saddle (heroic tier), Familiar's Baldric +2, Helm of Exemplary Defense (heroic tier), Guardian Shield Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Magic Warplate Armor +4
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======



With many interrupt powers to protect the familiar, and his defenses being:
AC       42
FORT   36
REFL    39
WILL   37

Giving +2 to hit for allies, and 1 extra on the extra attacks he gives.
With a bonus to opportunity attack damage equal +8 for allies in 3 squares.

Any idea of how to improve this?
Or it suck so much that doesnt even worth considering?
I know its not the best build ever, but is it playable?
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 12:13PM #4
PhilipENoe
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2011
Posts: 340
I like the concept, but I'd like to hear more input from others who are more familiar with the mechanics of the game.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 12:18PM #5
Nymerias
Date Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Posts: 80
Are you planning on casting the ritual everyday?

I only ask because I'm building a home campaign and one of my players is trying to build a playable character off a mini he fell in love with.  It is a dwarf riding a bear, but it is a large bear.  There is technically a bear familiar, but I'm not that familiar with using lots of rituals.   Is it really feasible to keep casting the ritual everyday?  Are there rules for making rituals have permanent effects?  Like super high cost, etc?
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 12:23PM #6
PhilipENoe
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2011
Posts: 340
If I remember correctly, the ritual cost is only like 175 gold.  So I suppose even if you were to use it daily, it would not be that big of a deal.  Plus, if the familiar mount takes too much damage, it reverts to its standard form anyway, so a "permanent" Familiar Mount Ritual might not even be that beneficial.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 12:45PM #7
satanicway
Date Joined: Jul 23, 2006
Posts: 640
25 Gp/day

It reverts back if takes damage = 5 + 1/2 level, thats why im trying the hard as possible to increase his defenses, and have alot of immediate reactions to protect him.

Even them im not sure hes durable enough... 
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 1:13PM #8
ShinQuickMan
Date Joined: Mar 19, 2004
Posts: 1,803
Phillip, it costs 175 gp to buy the ritual, yes. But it only costs 25 gp per use. You'll likely be able to get away with using Familiar Mount before every encounter and barely make a scratch on your wallet.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Sep 27, 2011 -- 11:47PM, satanicway wrote:


Its a low lvl build right now, that im still improving. Probably i will add Nightmare Saddle and a power swap of utility power to get the wizard atwill that teleports the familiar 10 squares, and retrain one or more of the familiar feats.


Well at lvl 6 the idea of the build is to keep flying over the enemies with a Cour Attendent or Floating Weapon Familiar used as mount via Familiar Mount Ritual.

The familiar feats adds to the familiar defenses, and enables me to take a move as a minor, or to double move with a move action via Active Familiar. This way i can reach anywhere i want on battlefield without taking attacks of opportunity because i can shift the necessary distance and them move to where i need to be.

Since the Familiar have a +2 to defenses naturally (both of them) and the feats gives +2, and Familiar Baldric +1, and my defenses arent bad either, it ends being really hard to hit.
And with Impenetrable Barding, its alittle harder to be destroyed, because it needs to take 13 of damage on a single hit. (and remember that i have a defender aura to plus -2 vs melees)

Even if it hits, i can use Powerful Warning, and picking as a Theme the Guardian i can take the hit myself once per encounter. This will enable me to stay at my familiar.

Them comes how i annoy the monster team. Since the game is 3d, my aura affects all squares directly under me too, so if i fly over their heads, i will affect an area of 4x4 squares. (all 16 squares not just 12 as normal for a Large creature)
And since im a lazylord, i will just give extra attacks each of my turns, and if one enemy ever moves without shifting on my 4x4 area of threat i will punish it with a direct the strike, because im really lazy to attack myself. (In case of no allies able i can virtuos strike the enemy...)

This build isnt a real defender, its more a 5th or 6th man of the party.
The idea is to help the party controlling the battlefield wille the real defender takes the most dangerous enemy by himself.


Idk if this build can be improved in any way, but i found it really fun.
I know its not really optmical and that i still can lose everything if my familiar get hit, but thats why i invested so much in making it not get down.

One think im wondering now if i can use a Barding on it... lol




Some things I'd like to point out. Your familiar is technically not considered an ally. Thus, you can't use powers such as Powerful Warning on it.

Also, you aura will not resize for riding a larger creature, as pointed out in in the passage from the DMG errata below.

errata Show

Mount and Rider
Page 46: Replace the shaded text with the following
text.
Mount and Rider
A mount and rider follow these rules while the rider is
mounted.
✦ Space: The rider and mount both occupy the mount’s
space. However, the origin squares of the rider’s
powers and other effects do not change to the
mount’s size. Whenever the rider uses an effect that
has an origin square (such as a melee, a ranged, an
area, or a close power), the rider first picks where
that square is located in the mount’s space, and
the effect uses that origin square. For example, if a
Medium rider uses a close burst attack power, the
rider chooses a single square within the mount’s
space, and the burst emanates from that square. This
rule means that if the burst targets each creature
within it, rather than each enemy, it can hit the
mount.

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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 1:24PM #9
satanicway
Date Joined: Jul 23, 2006
Posts: 640
Thanks for the answer but you are wrong. =/

There is a new errata that says that Auras doesnt have a origing point, and it starts from the Space you are, so it is resized.
(if not cavaliers would be the biggest failure ever made by design, because they get a power to summon a large mount warhorse, and needs an aura 1 to work lol)


I'm looking at the rules of Familiars, and either they are a creature and an ally, or its untargettable by enemy attacks because almost all enemy attacks targets a Creature.

There is anything about familiars in rules compendium?

Im still looking for the exact way familiars works.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 1:32PM #10
satanicway
Date Joined: Jul 23, 2006
Posts: 640
Interesting fact from mounted combat rules:

  Willing: The creature must be a willing mount. The mount is considered an ally to its rider and the rider’s allies. 

 So even if the familiar isnt an ally by himself, it becomes an ally by mounted combat rules.
 
 When i get back home i will look to see if a familiar is a creature. Since i know its not a conjuration, if its not a creature its immune to almost all monster attacks...
 They need to clarify this rules... badly. 
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