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2 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2011 - 1:19PM
#51
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Unless your Wizard has always been roleplayed as being completely suicidal, then charing the Troll or Giant with a Dagger is not roleplaying, it's a deathwish that has no grounds in their character concept at all. As long as the Fighter is still up, 99% of the time the in character solution is to hang back and not be in the way with your silly dagger while the Fighter mops up for you.
It's nice to think that the Wizard is roleplaying when he gets himself mauled to death for no reason, but really it's nonsensical almost all the time.
Also effects like a non-magical always hitting crossbow sound like the kind of thing that's, you know, permanent. Unless it magically breaks down after the encounter before anyone had a chance to figure out how it worked, which considering it's non-magical would not make a lot of sense.
It's great to roleplay and to try something different. It's not good roleplaying to realise that your powers stop working, so it's best to get suicidal and run in the way of people who don't have that issue and are supposed to protect you.
You're making the assumption that all things being equal a person will respond the same way to the same situation as every other person, not all wizards are cowards who when deprived of power cower. Even getting into flanking is increasing DPR of the group, stabbing is increasing dpr, using theme skills and other abilities help. Hell, the attackers may ignore the wizard giving him a chance to dissolve the anti-magic field or drop a chandelier that swings across the field and does damage and ongoing fire and knock the enemies prone. A good DM can give options, a good player can seize them the combination once in awhile is more fun then I'll do the same things i did last time in the same order to the same result. Remember not all the time but once in a while mixing it up isn't bad.
People are seeing one piece of a very complicated puzzle that could be a memorable encounter but because they don't like that piece they refuse to look past it. I'm looking at it and seeing ways to work with it, it's not even my idea and I'd rather work with it then call it stupid.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2011 - 1:46PM
#52
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Date Joined:
May 13, 2009
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The thing is that pretty much everything you come up with (other then the chandelier, which, being a terrain power would actually be viable) is extremely nonsensical when you look at it from a roleplaying perspective.
From a roleplaying point, a Wizard would not jump at the chance to stick a Dagger in something because he should be aware that he'll be forcing the Fighter to keep an eye on him, which is probably not a very good idea in an already very difficult encounter.
Unless the Wizard presents himself as a block of meat to reduce the damage taken by the Fighter (which is an extremely nonsensical way to think for just about anyone with a sense of self-preservation) then he'll be aware that he's hurting more then he helps with just about anything he does.
Terrain powers though, those could work. If you get in enough of them that the Wizard could use one every round or close to it, then he could have fun and it could halfway make sense storywise. Of course that would still be better if it didn't come with something as heavy-handed as "all your other powers don't work today", but hey.
Epic Dungeon Master Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen! Your Kingdom awaits!Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2011 - 2:14PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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'Everything except martial' would be one extreme. An 'anti-magic' effect could also presumably target a single source. With the sources being keywords, that'd make determining what is affected quite simple.
Except for the whole "the Barbarian can no longer swing his Axe" thing. To what extent is a Barbarian axe-swing primal magic, and that to what extent is it an axe swung by a very large and well trained figure?
Less the Primal, the Barbarian is presumably swinging his axe with Melee Basic Attack.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2011 - 5:36PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2008
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I'm not even trying to debuff or prevent anything from the players.
My campaign is run in my own world creation, all the way from the 1st ed days. The current campaign is based around tying up loose ends from many old campaigns, and from events that happened during the Spellplague (although for other reasons it is called the "Dark Night" in my world's history, due to other events that happened at the same time).
The players will soon be heading for an area of the world that is rampant with dead magic areas, and also inhabited by a creature that is very resistant to magic (that is another story). Hence why I'm asking for suggestions. I'm not trying to make this creature unbeatable, but since it is usually a solitary beast, I do want it to be a challenge and not a walkover. Out of 6-7 players, there are only 2 melee specialists, 1 archer, and the rest are all spellcasters who avoid melee at all costs.
Now, I realize I can totally change the creature, but it's been an iconic fixture in the world, and I don't want to take the one thing it's feared for away from it. I simply want to make it a challenge for the players. But not unbeatable.
But in any case, many thanks for All the suggestions.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2011 - 7:04PM
#55
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I would think that players might quite like being made to think once in a while.
If the only thing making your players think is being stripped of all their abilities, there is a problem with how the game is being run.
The time when joe the barbarian saves the day by wrestling the anti magic creature to death will be long remembered, unlike the endless times when everyone just does what they usually do.
Or, all of the cool encounters and interesting situations will be remembered which the characters had to overcome with their abilities. Again, if you're playing the game and you aren't having a memorable time because "Nobody lost their abilities!", you're not putng enough memorable stuff into your game. There are limitless numbers of interesting, thought prevoking situations that players can be put into that don't involve them being stripped of all power and being forced to play "Impress the DM to succeed!"
EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS.
Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)
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2 years ago ::
Sep 25, 2011 - 7:25AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2002
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There are limitless numbers of interesting, thought prevoking situations that players can be put into that don't involve them being stripped of all power and being forced to play "Impress the DM to succeed!"
Rustmonster has it right. Of all the games I've been in and run absolutely none of the memorable parts were because we lost abilities. (Well once in a Vampire game, but what made that memorable was the way the scene (a ritual to revive the torpor'd former prince of the city) tied together a year's worth of seemingly disparate plots.) What made the situations memorable was the situations themselves.
For instance, my players still talk about one game that started out in a fairly normal patch of forest near some old ruins. There were no special anti-magic fields or anything of that nature, nothing outside the normal rules except for the encounter design. The party was on the run from an army of monsters (mostly orcs, with other stuff thrown in) after the military unit they had been part of was routed. They knew they had to make an escape or the bulk of the army could be summoned, and that made it memorable.
Yes, the latest book/release that you don't like is a blatant attempt by Wizards of the Coast to make money off the fanbase. They all are. That's kinda the point of the Free Enterprise system, companies are in it to make money... Spoiler:
Show
You can't! I tried... and the next night masked men came into my house and beat me until I burned up my ranger character sheet and rolled a scout. They told me... if I ever thought of making a non-essential character that they would kill mitsy..... OH GOD THEY ARE COMING BACK AND ARE FORCING ME TO BUY HEROES OF SHADOWS! SOMEONE STOP THEM PLEASE!
Your DM is your friend. He's not trying to screw with you, or dick you around. Play your character how your character would act. Accept that your character won't always be able to do what he's best at, but also know that as a goddamn HERO, he's gonna try to do his best at what he can do.
Roleplay your goddamn character, make the decisions he would make, and roll appropriately. Everything will be fine.
But filling a post with vitriol, hate-filled comments, like "these people should be fired", swearing at us or other ambiguous members of the company - there really is no reason for that. Please share your feedback respectfully, and consider how you would share your ideas if this were a face to face conversation between real people, not faceless names on a screen.
If you see me posting in a thread about editions or Essentials (that isn't simply a rules thread or similar) remind me that I'm trying to stay away from them. (My blood pressure will thank us both.)
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2 years ago ::
Sep 25, 2011 - 2:02PM
#57
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Date Joined:
May 13, 2009
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I'm not even trying to debuff or prevent anything from the players.
My campaign is run in my own world creation, all the way from the 1st ed days. The current campaign is based around tying up loose ends from many old campaigns, and from events that happened during the Spellplague (although for other reasons it is called the "Dark Night" in my world's history, due to other events that happened at the same time).
The players will soon be heading for an area of the world that is rampant with dead magic areas, and also inhabited by a creature that is very resistant to magic (that is another story). Hence why I'm asking for suggestions. I'm not trying to make this creature unbeatable, but since it is usually a solitary beast, I do want it to be a challenge and not a walkover. Out of 6-7 players, there are only 2 melee specialists, 1 archer, and the rest are all spellcasters who avoid melee at all costs.
Now, I realize I can totally change the creature, but it's been an iconic fixture in the world, and I don't want to take the one thing it's feared for away from it. I simply want to make it a challenge for the players. But not unbeatable.
But in any case, many thanks for All the suggestions.
Unless you manage to come up with something for your spellcasters to do, you might risk challenging them and boring half of them at the same time.
Personally I put anti-magic effects under the list of "if you have to ask for advice, the only viable advice is don't". Make of it what you will.
A simple fix might be to either put the players under an effect that lets them still use magic in the dead zone, perhaps because they are tied to the fates due to their heroism or perhaps because of their raw power and potential. Then you add something to the encounter that they have to deal with while the others deal with the magic resistant critter. Basically two encounters at once.
If it's the only encounter you want to run in the zone then you could also perhaps make it where the non-casters have to occupy the creature (because it's too tough to kill) while the spellcasters put their knowledge to work and solve a skill challenge ASAP so they can get what they need and run like hell, before the critter devours the warriors and then feasts on the defenseless mages.
Epic Dungeon Master Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen! Your Kingdom awaits!Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2011 - 2:09AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2008
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Having a plot twist do something to the PC's (get imprisoned, polymorph into rats, whatever) could be fun. Usually it is more fun if they all are affected.
Having to play a wizard without powers for a combat encounter lasting 1 hour of real time is not very enjoyable though.
I do see a chaotic magic area where each round you could not use a specific power source being chaotic and fun. That would only penalize a particular PC for 1 round at a time.
If I "hose" a specific PC somehow, I try to make it last only a short while. Unless it is a strong plot thing (e.g. a PC will get rewarded for putting up with some penalty for some time, like carrying a cursed artifact or whatever).
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2 years ago ::
Sep 27, 2011 - 12:03AM
#59
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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I suppose you could desicribe the creature being 'immune' to the casters' first round of attacks, but if they come up with a rationalization ("I alter my scorching burst to ignite the flamables around the creature, rather than scortching it directly... ") they work 'normally,' just with the rationalized fluff.
Hey, if a halfling theif can 'topple over' a gelatinous cube...
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Sep 27, 2011 - 5:38PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Mar 21, 2010
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In old AD&D there were monsters with magic resistance and anti-magic shells and rooms in the dungeon where maybe magic just didn't work.
You could always get around it somehow. Cast strength on the fighter and Haste on the party. Drop a Wall of Iron on it. Disentegrate the floor.
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