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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 3:29PM
#21
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I kind of suspect that one reason why Dragonlance hasn't made an appearance in 4e is because of the restrictions on the setting.
In 2nd ed (and 3rd, to an extent) there was a problem where the game developers would come up with new ideas that were interesting to players (classes, PC races, monsters), but there was no where to put them in the more tightly defined settings like dragonlance without a big sea change or retcon. It was one factor in the marginalization of psionics, and one of the reasons why Spelljammer was problematic.
Dragonlance is probably the most restrictive of these. Without a big alteration to the setting (which would kind of defeat the purpose of keeping it around), there really isn't a place for a lot of things that are around now: no tiefling,dragonborn, half-orcs, psionics, drow, warlocks, eladrin, etc. Healing is a big issue, especially in the pre-war Age of Despair. The Wizards of High Sorcery weren't fans of non-wizards having magic, which makes probems for non-wizard classes that use arcane power (swordmages, etc.)
During third ed, WotC came out and said: we know people are tired of having fun new things and no place to put them. So, everything goes in Eberon- no blacklisted classes, monsters, powers, etc. If it is in a book, it is in Eberon, and we'll make the lore fit with it as much as possible.
This is also easy with the Points of Light setting- the world is left vague enough that you don't have to shoe-horn in new options for PCs.
That is how I see it: Dragonlance was a very completely defined, coherent setting. Which made it fun to write stories in, but for the game meant that 80% of new material wasn't applicable there.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 3:30PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2007
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So, it will be impossible if the story insists on following cannon, because then we have the "Drizzt Problem."
In reality, it is the "Raistlin problem." Raistlin predates Drizz't by quite a few years, and is a prime example of a canon character becoming so pervasive that the world simply cannot escape him. And, just like Drizz't, Raistlin's popularity became a plague upon D&D for a time as everyone and their sister wanted to play "a character like Raistlin, but" with some minor difference.
And it still wouldn't be "impossible," I am simply not interested in playing in a setting tied to a 30+ year old canon. If I have players who want to play on Krynn when / if the published setting comes out with the Heroes of the Lance still extant, I'll need to go through the canon beforehand and let my players know how I have changed the history of the world before we start.
Even relatively decent design decisions would make that a non-issue. But I do see your point. I was forever turned off of Forgotten Realms due to people who were WAAAAAY too gung-ho about memorizing cannon. I think that is why I prefer Eberron; there ARE no world-shaking heroes that the world can rely upon, and even if there are, there's so much crap going on that they have something else to do (which is of much less significance than what the players are doing).
Which is why I proposed a Dragonlance: Cataclysm setting. There are only two world-shaking heroes at the time, and they are both falling into darkness (the Kingpriest and Lord Soth), effectively becoming the problem rather than the source of any solution. Dealing with a world right as it is falling into disaster would also be a new take on D&D. There have been post-apocalyptic D&D settings before, but none while the apocalypse is actually happening.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 3:32PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2009
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Later there were 2 other continents besides Ansalon,... Taladas,Adlatum. Which I'm less familar with.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 3:45PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2007
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Later there were 2 other continents besides Ansalon,... Taladas,Adlatum. Which I'm less familar with.
And I really liked Taladas when it came out in 2E. It was the first setting to integrate the kits into character creation (as Dark Sun integrated Themes into 4E, and Neverwinter expanded them beyond Dark Sun). It was also so far removed from Dragonlance that it wasn't really a Dragonlance setting. In reality, only the gods remained the same. Rename the gods, and it really was its own, unique setting.
The Minotaur empire was an interesting take on the Roman Empire, with legal disputes in the empire being resolved in the arena (making the law fun for everyone). There were no novels that involved Taladas, so the campaign setting gave you a starting point, and left it to you to populate it with heroes. The different political / social climate made different gods more influential. Gilean, the god of wealth, became one of the most powerful dieties in the realm. Sargas, the god of the Minotaurs, running second. Takhisis, being so concerned with Ansalon, had very little presence on Taladas, leaving Chemosh to become the primary villain.
I don't remember anything about Adlatum. Was that in a Soveriegn Press (Weis & Hickman's publishing house) release for 3.x?
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 3:59PM
#25
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If they were to do a dragonlance for 4e, I hope they would just do the one for the first 3 books.
list every thing from hazards both racial attitudes to everything else there in it.
and just forget about the rest of the timeline parts that they did.
and whatever they do, the biggest fail of dragonlance was: the only known modules were done off the novels themselves.
dont rerelease them.
as for the ditch the timeline.
one page, its history up to that point, next pages list everything up to the last novel written as a possible outcome.
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 5:29PM
#26
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Later there were 2 other continents besides Ansalon,... Taladas,Adlatum. Which I'm less familar with.
I don't remember anything about Adlatum. Was that in a Soveriegn Press (Weis & Hickman's publishing house) release for 3.x?
There was a little about Adlatum in the Sovereign Press books. It was the home of the blue-tattooed barbarians from Dragons of Summers Flame and a few other minor villain races- I don't think it ever got a treatment comperable to Taladas- just a map, a few race stats, and some comments, if I remember right.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 6:15PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2009
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I kind of suspect that one reason why Dragonlance hasn't made an appearance in 4e is because of the restrictions on the setting.
In 2nd ed (and 3rd, to an extent) there was a problem where the game developers would come up with new ideas that were interesting to players (classes, PC races, monsters), but there was no where to put them in the more tightly defined settings like dragonlance without a big sea change or retcon. It was one factor in the marginalization of psionics, and one of the reasons why Spelljammer was problematic.
Dragonlance is probably the most restrictive of these. Without a big alteration to the setting (which would kind of defeat the purpose of keeping it around), there really isn't a place for a lot of things that are around now: no tiefling,dragonborn, half-orcs, psionics, drow, warlocks, eladrin, etc. Healing is a big issue, especially in the pre-war Age of Despair. The Wizards of High Sorcery weren't fans of non-wizards having magic, which makes probems for non-wizard classes that use arcane power (swordmages, etc.)
During third ed, WotC came out and said: we know people are tired of having fun new things and no place to put them. So, everything goes in Eberon- no blacklisted classes, monsters, powers, etc. If it is in a book, it is in Eberon, and we'll make the lore fit with it as much as possible.
This is also easy with the Points of Light setting- the world is left vague enough that you don't have to shoe-horn in new options for PCs.
That is how I see it: Dragonlance was a very completely defined, coherent setting. Which made it fun to write stories in, but for the game meant that 80% of new material wasn't applicable there.
To: Gnull They do have psiconic...it's pretty much mysticism. Tiefling are tiefings, Deva are assimar. Dragonborn=draconians, no orcs/half orc but repaint ogre and half ogre. No drow but dark elves. It's just a matter of rewriting it in! What tower of high sorcery has a elite guard of sword mages. W.o.t.c. create's CSings. Thats what they do and if they wanted to make it fit they could. It's not a big deal. There should be regnizable themes like DS deserts man vs nature, limited metal, no divine. ect.but as the game advances so should the setting. Though these are not hard and fast rules. I haven't played w/ a hardliner DM! There out there but ...i haven't played w/one. I understand your lack wanting to play a scipted story driven. Early dragonlance modual did do that like the hero of the lance. But is it any less scripted encounters/premade adventure. The world is a BIG place. If you don't do something else or tell your dm. I don't have a steady group so I mostly play by myself.
I like the setting it history it's characters! Maybe it gotten a bad rap as the one that got away it was owned by wiess productions/pubishing! It was origonally a D&D setting then latter...saga,pathfinder. I not sure of te legal stuff. But I would like to see wizards take it back!!! break it off for 4e. They are still repubishing novels I saw the test of the twins.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 7:29PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Later there were 2 other continents besides Ansalon,... Taladas,Adlatum. Which I'm less familar with.
I don't remember anything about Adlatum. Was that in a Soveriegn Press (Weis & Hickman's publishing house) release for 3.x?
There was a little about Adlatum in the Sovereign Press books. It was the home of the blue-tattooed barbarians from Dragons of Summers Flame and a few other minor villain races- I don't think it ever got a treatment comperable to Taladas- just a map, a few race stats, and some comments, if I remember right.
Adlatum is not the home of the brutes from DoSF, that is a different place. Adlatum is quite different, and is an entirely fan-made continent. It is home to winged elves, talker gnomes (rather than Tinker or Thinker aka Mad gnomes), Minotaur Monasteries, and a lot of other stuff. Where Ansalon was crushed by the Cataclysm and had a maelstrom at the former site of a great empire, and Taladas had a sea of lava, Adlatum sank mostly beneath the waves.
I really don't think Dragonlance is going to see release during 4E. As that is probably the case, I would love to see it get a month dedicated to it much like Kara-Tur and (possibly) Al'Qadim. I hope they look at what they had done for Ravenloft and release it that way as well. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they did a campaign setting month every other month.
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 7:36PM
#29
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Later there were 2 other continents besides Ansalon,... Taladas,Adlatum. Which I'm less familar with.
I don't remember anything about Adlatum. Was that in a Soveriegn Press (Weis & Hickman's publishing house) release for 3.x?
There was a little about Adlatum in the Sovereign Press books. It was the home of the blue-tattooed barbarians from Dragons of Summers Flame and a few other minor villain races- I don't think it ever got a treatment comperable to Taladas- just a map, a few race stats, and some comments, if I remember right.
Adlatum is not the home of the brutes from DoSF, that is a different place. Adlatum is quite different, and is an entirely fan-made continent. It is home to winged elves, talker gnomes (rather than Tinker or Thinker aka Mad gnomes), Minotaur Monasteries, and a lot of other stuff. Where Ansalon was crushed by the Cataclysm and had a maelstrom at the former site of a great empire, and Taladas had a sea of lava, Adlatum sank mostly beneath the waves.
I really don't think Dragonlance is going to see release during 4E. As that is probably the case, I would love to see it get a month dedicated to it much like Kara-Tur and (possibly) Al'Qadim. I hope they look at what they had done for Ravenloft and release it that way as well. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they did a campaign setting month every other month.
You're right- Ithin'carthia was what I was thimking of, but it is just an island insteadbof a whole continent.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 7:55PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2009
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Silver blaze is right it is Ithin'carthia. And island south of Taladas east of Ansalon. (DL nexus) And well 1 french fry is better than no frech fry's. I does little to fill the need of more campagne settings. W.o.t.c. has been good at releasing races/classes/powersouces. While i like FR's, and NW releasing these so close togther pretty much sent the message FR's is our core setting. Good for FR bad for the rest of us! The only thing I like from the are the drow and the shades. (not the shade character...that's flawed) But the drow have been overplayed that's just my oppion.
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