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2 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2011 - 10:52AM #1
Yarium
Date Joined: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 2,503

So, last night I ran my first “Battle Mission”.  Effectively, the players got themselves into a situation where they were  fighting against the leading edge of an army. Normally, I would cringe  at the prospect – there were 41 models on the table, and I have to keep  track of all of them? Not only that, but even if they’re minions, it’ll  take forever to move and make attacks with everyone. I decided that the  system, as it was, could not handle that size of an encounter without it  taking hours of play.


I needed a  new system, one that kept true to the basics of the game, but made  things move faster. I know that all us DM’s dream of that – but somehow,  with only an hour to spare, I found a way. It’s only something I would  do for the really large fights (hence “Battle Mission&rdquo, but I think it  gives the feel of a frantic conflict very well, and keeps everyone in  the action.


First things first – don’t roll initiative. Instead, do a group check to see if the players go first, or last.


All players take their actions as a group,  simultaneously. After the players are done, the monsters take their turn  simultaneously. Normally this would make both sides (player and  DM-monsters) want to rip their teeth out. This is where the next part of  the system takes place.


Break down the turn into the following phases:


Minor – Move – Minor – Standard Action – Minor – Move – Minor


If a model  has yet to use that action, they are allowed to do so in that phase.  This phase structure allows any combination or ordering of a player’s  actions to be taken:


Minor-Move-Standard
Minor-Standard-Move
Move-Minor-Standard
Move-Standard-Minor
Standard-Minor-Move
Standard-Move-Minor


For very large fights, it’s recommended that you use an assistant DM to handle all the simultaneous actions. If a player wants to substitute their standard action for another move action, they skip their action in the "Standard Action" phase, and take their move action in either of the two move-action phases.


For Action Points, I'd recommend letting players use them at any time.


 


Strengths:


+  Remarkably fast; Our 41-model combat took 1 hour to complete. 30 models  were Minions, 1 was a boss, and 4 others were Skirmishers. There were 6  PCs. The combat lasted 6 rounds. Instead of spending 5 minutes per  player turn, we spent 7 minutes or so to do ALL the player’s turns.


+ Kept all players busy; It didn’t feel like  players or monsters were hanging around for fights to happen. Players  were kept in the action at all points during the “players turn”, meaning  that no one sat twiddling thumbs.


+ More vivid conflict; With so many actions taking  place at once, the conflict felt more “alive”, as the pieces were all  moving simultaneously. Players are under more pressure to choose actions  without having near-perfect battlefield knowledge.


 


Weaknesses:


-  Throws the concept of Initiative right out the window; Any player who  has worked towards having a high initiative is penalized.


- Players can’t “stack” advantages as easily; If  one player wants to wait until after another player has moved before  attacking, but that player doesn’t want to move until AFTER attacking,  that isn’t possible. Everyone takes their standard action at the same  time.


- Tension; While action goes up, tension does as  well, putting players under the gun to choose actions without  considering all the consequences, and without knowing their exact  options. While this can be considered a strength in the case that it  captures the feeling of “combat” more vividly, it runs counter to  Yarium’s DM Rule #3, “Players hate feeling stupid”.


 NOTE:  Because it was a “battle”, and we had 2 DM’s running combat, and I was  pushing the players to choose quickly during each phase, this added a  lot more pressure than normal. I felt this was appropriate for the  “all-out-combat” that I wanted to represent. I originally thought that  this system wouldn’t work for smaller conflicts, but I think I am  mistaken in this. If I don’t “push” players too hard, I think this  system can work for regular-sized encounters too. I’ll try this next  time and report back.


 


What do you think?

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1000 posts w00t! Jun 17 - 2010

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2 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2011 - 12:04PM #2
Eldrazor
Date Joined: Dec 28, 2010
Posts: 500
I'd rather throw out rolling damage and take the average damage of everyone and everything.
And for NPC v NPC they automatically hit. 
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2011 - 12:58PM #3
FlatFoot
Date Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 498
I ran a large scale battle at our last session. The 5 member party was along side about 75 others. The table looked pretty awesome. What I did was take a Warhammer aproach to movement - which was easy since I was using warhammer minis & trays. The individual minis were in groups of 10-15 and moved as units, each player controlling one-two units on their turn. For attacks, players simply rolled % dice and that was the % (rounded) that hit, destroying 1 enemy per hit. The PCs focused their efforts on the Big Bads that joined the battle. If a group attacked one of the Big Bads, they did 1d6 per hit. Played out really smothly and everyone had fun. And it was the official christening of my Really Big Battlemat.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2011 - 1:38PM #4
Detoxifier
Date Joined: Apr 24, 2011
Posts: 340
I've run some large scale combat encounters that included thousands of fighting soldiers at once. 

We still rolled for initiative, one time, at the very beginning of the encounter and kept that order for the entire battle.  I rolled one die to represent the armies of both sides and one additional time to represent mini bosses and bosses. 

I also did what Eldrazor suggested and average the dmg for each soldier, monster, or minion they would be fighting -(including psionics and spells)- and for the different structures such as lightning ballistas, fire ballistas, catapults, and battlefield hazards.  I also had the players average their dmg and apply it in all cases except critical hits (where they simply multiplied it by the crit multiplier)

The main centerpiece of the battle was the two armies fighting against one another.  To represent how each army was doing I would roll opposed D20 checks, whichever army one, advanced a number of feet and the army that lost took a number of casualties and lost a certain expanse of ground.  I had some basic modifiers for the armires.  For each Leader (mini boss) an army had they gained a +1 modifier to the roll, for each legend (boss) they gained a +2, and for units with increased destructive power (such as lightning or fire ballistas) they received a +1).  There were other modifiers but this is just a good example.

In the beginning stages of combat the defending army (the one with the PC's) started at a severe disadvantage (more than 20 points down).  The way that the PC's were able to affect the outcome of the battle is to assault and take down specific targets, or hold their ground against mutliple waves enemy combatants until a leader comes in an attempt to remove them from their position. 
By killing leaders, legends, or destroying siege towers, catapults, and ballistas the players are able to affect the opposed rolls (represented visually by a decrease in the number of casualites or lost ground) until the tide of battle begins to equalize or turn.

In this way the battle represents a large variety of different things happening at once without having to keep track of any particular individual enemy units (with the exception of the minions, mini bosses,  bosses, and structures or large weapons).  Whenever the PC's were advancing they simply met a moderate amount of resistance in the form of soldiers (who usually die in a hit or two) on their way to one of the 'battle encounters' where they would face a boss and his minions, or waves of specialized units that were much more dangerous than the 1/4 CR soldiers blanketing the battlefield.
...and in the ancient voice of a million squirrels the begotten chittered "You have set upon yourselves a great and noble task, dare you step further, what say you!  What say you!"
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 26, 2011 - 5:03AM #5
Robertflatt
Date Joined: Dec 12, 2009
Posts: 76
Struggling a bit with finding meaningful opposition for my group, that have recently hit paragon, in the area they are travelling. Found an approach where i made elite swarms of hobgoblins (gargatuan) representing about 20, that dispersed into 1d3+3 minions when bloodied, and gave the minions an ability to rejoin another phalanx, which healed them a bit. Went quite well with my group.
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