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2 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2011 - 12:47PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2006
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Hey there guys, I have been lurking around the forums here for about 2 months. A few of us play 3.5 in my group still, but 3 of us are interested in starting a 4e campaign. We will be using d20pro as we are sorta scattered throughout the US/Canada. So I guess first and foremost. What books asside from the obvious 3 woul yall recommend starting with.
We want to get into a Dark Sun campaign, but are newbs to the 4e rules for the most part. My buddy and I ran some mock battles to figure some of the stuff out, but we are just wondering what the best course of action would be to start with.
I think with D20pro we would just "pretend" we are sitting at the table and roll a lot of the defenses as if we were sitting there rolling them with real dice. And then I (the dm) would apply the damage if they hit.
At any rate, I am looking to get the Dm guide and MM1 to start so we can kind of get a grip on the core rules. And Dark Sun will be our chosen campaign setting. Is there anything else I should do to prepare. I am currently the only with a DDI account, and can roll their characters up using that or they can roll them up normally and email them to me. So DDI is not (hopefully) going to be an issue.
Thanks.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2011 - 12:57PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Given that you've got some experience with D&D already, I'd recommend going with the PHB as your player's book. More options, more variety. Dark Sun Campaign Setting book is also pretty clearly important.
DDI is a very useful tool, but it doesn't contain everything. PHB and DMG are important. As far as monster books, if you've got D&D experience, then DDI will be plenty good enough as far as monsters are concerned. What it lacks compared to an actual MM is mostly in the fluff, pictures, and tactics, all of which you sound capable of figuring out on your own.
A Rules Compendium is also probably a wise choice. In the three years since 4e has been out, a number of the rules have seen major revisions, and it's really hard to keep track of them all through DDI alone. It's not perfect, but it is the go-to resource, especially for those new to 4e.
I really would recommend getting physical copies of the player book for any class you are going to be actually playing, however. PHB, PHB2, PHB3, Heroes Of X, and possibly the Arcane/Divine/Primal/Psionic/Martial Power books. You can find the class via the DDI tools, decide what you want, and then snipe it out of a real book. DDI does not always have complete information about every class feature or unique rules element. One example that comes straight to mind is the Beastmaster Ranger, which is contained in Martial Power (one, I think...?). The options are there in the Character Builder, but it doesn't say things like how to control it, how to give it orders, etc. That stuff is only in the printed text.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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2 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2011 - 1:09PM
#3
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If you're only picking up a few books now skip the MM1 and go with the Monster Vault. The monsters are better designed.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2011 - 6:46PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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What books asside from the obvious 3 woul yall recommend starting with.
We want to get into a Dark Sun campaign, but are newbs to the 4e rules for the most part. My buddy and I ran some mock battles to figure some of the stuff out, but we are just wondering what the best course of action would be to start with.
Dark Sun hasn't been supported in Essentials, as yet, so you'd want the 'obvious 3' - PH1, DMG1, MM* - rather than the 'obvious 10' Essentials products.
For Dark Sun, you will definitely want PH3, which includes all the Psionic classes! PH2 wouldn't be a bad idea either, at minimum, Sorcerers are a nice inclusion in DS, and there are some important feats in there, too.
*you probably don't want the MM1 for Dark Sun, it's monsters are balanced for less 'deadly' campaigns. MM3 would be a better bet. The Monster Vault boxed set would also be good, though you pay for a lot of tokens that'll be of no great use to you, since you're not playing around a table.
At any rate, I am looking to get the Dm guide and MM1 to start so we can kind of get a grip on the core rules. And Dark Sun will be our chosen campaign setting. Is there anything else I should do to prepare.
PH1 will be a bigger help on the rules than the DMG (though, of course, you'll want both). A MM is probably a good idea, but probably not MM1.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 10:33AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2011
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If you're only picking up a few books now skip the MM1 and go with the Monster Vault. The monsters are better designed.
MM1 has some classic favourite monsters in it, but yes, they are a little boring, don't hit hard enough and the elites and solos are broken. Still, WotC are relasing updates for it.
Monster Vault has some of the MM1 monsters updated in it, but far from all.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 5:44PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2006
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Thanks for the book suggestions everyone. To recap I should probably get:
PHB1,2,3
Monster Vault (not MM1)
DMG
Dark Sun Campaign Setting
and Rules Compendium
Is there only one Rules Compendium? Or are there a few?
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 6:37PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2010
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Hi!  I just reccommend (if you can) to get a MM too...MV is a great product, but I use it as an "alternative" to MM, rather than an update...I really like MMs now (I wasn't their fan in 3.x)! Ok with everything else that's benn said.  Oh...and have fun! Thanks for the book suggestions everyone. To recap I should probably get:
PHB1,2,3
Monster Vault (not MM1)
DMG
Dark Sun Campaign Setting
and Rules Compendium
Is there only one Rules Compendium? Or are there a few?
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 8:07PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2003
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Since Dark Sun is my campaign of choice as well. I would recommend
Dark Sun Campaign Guide and Creature Catalog
DMG1
PHB 1, 2, 3. (2 has your primal Leader, and Goliath, aka, Half Giant. 3 has your Psionic Classes, which are very important for a true Dark Sun feel)
Monster Vault - the DS creature catalog has a nice selection of monsters, and MV fills in nicely, since the monsters are updated with new numbers.
Since you have a DDI subscription, I would recommend MM3 if you do get a Monster Manual. This book, along with Monster Vault and the DS Creature Catalog will give you a feel for the damages that should be used, so that if you grab MM1 monsters from the online compendium, you can adjust values as needed.
And a Rules Compendium, simply because it is the current and up-to-date source of rules and errata.
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 8:16PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Oh right, the DS Creature Catalog...very important. Lots of good DS-flavored monsters in that.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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2 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2011 - 12:20PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2006
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Cool, thanks guys. I think I will get started collecting these. One of my players asked me if monsters in the core monster manual books will be an issue to put into a Dark Sun setting. I guess he is concerned that if the monster wouldn't be in that world then why do I need those books? I still have yet to read the Dark Sun Campaign setting book and the DS creature catalogue to gleen some insight on this question, so I ask you.
While I am thinking about this I am curious how you all deal with trouble players. I guess trouble may be a harsh word. But lets say someone goes to purchase an item from a vendor, I randomly generate a list of items and they don't like the list so they try to "roleplay" in other words metagame (hence the quotes) a way to get better items on the shop.
At any rate, I appreciate the help guys and have been learning dming and making a lot of mistakes so I am trying to reduce my mistakes now since I have learned a lot more. These guys tend to frustrate me while I am dming, "What that DC is only 13 I rolled a 14!" or "HOW can he FLY and cast ANOTHER spell!" I don't give them specific information for reasons of discovery. Monster might have a ring of flying for example that he prefers to have active always, said ring is a reward if the encounter is defeated successfully.
At any rate, I am just seeking more advice that will apply to my 4.0 campaign. And with that I think I just derailed my own topic.
Thanks again, I do appreciate it.
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