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2 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2011 - 7:16PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Dec 25, 2009
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Not really liking the narrow field of "must use three optionals", but I'l shoehorn my idea into this requirement somehow.
You need to use at LEAST three optionals. You can include all of them if you want. Just keep in mind that more isn't necessarily better. If an element seems like it was "shoehorned" in, it'll probably count against you. If the extra elements flow into the design nicely, then the more the better.
Also, if you're using more than three, remember to list the three that you feel are the strongest.
If, for example, you have four elements that you think you did a great job with, and one that you kind of included, list three of the four for your optionals, to make sure no judge counts the 'kind of' one as a poorly done optional (because we didn't notice the other good ones).
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 5:53AM
#22
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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So, then you MUST include History as an option to obtain that knowledge?
You must state what knowledge the characters can learn with a History check.
That's it. That's the requirement. If you write "A History check that surpasses a difficult DC reveals nothing more than that no object matching this description has ever been seen in this world", so be it. You met the element. (Whether that flies with the judges as being reasonable is an entirely different matter, that could affect your Creativity and Clarity scores; but everything you write can affect your Creativity and Clarity scores.)
I don't understand the "instead of" aspect of your question. There is no "instead of". If the characters can learn something about the item with an Arcana check, a Dungeoneering check, a Religion check, or even an Endurance check, you can include that, though it won't satisfy the Knowledge requirement. The Knowledge requirement can only be satisfied by explaining what the characters might learn with a History check.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 6:02AM
#23
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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Also, if you're using more than three, remember to list the three that you feel are the strongest.
If, for example, you have four elements that you think you did a great job with, and one that you kind of included, list three of the four for your optionals, to make sure no judge counts the 'kind of' one as a poorly done optional (because we didn't notice the other good ones).
I'm going to respectfully disagree with this assessment. When I judge (though I'm not judging this contest), I personally only judge the Themes category based on the three elements that the entry best meets in my opinion.
Usually, I look at each of the elements the entrant identifies and give it a score from 0 to 3. Zero means the entry didn't actually meet the element listed. 1 means technically met the element, but it feels forced. 2 means it met the element and fits well with the overall entry. 3 means that it meets the element so seamlessly, I may not have even realized that aspect of the entry was an optional element.
I take the three best scoring elements and add them together. Then if the entry as a whole fit the contest theme remarkably well (regardless of how well it met the individual optional elements), I give it another point, for a score between 0 and 10. I notice, though, that sometimes someone who is convinced they nailed an optional element actually misread it, or the element feels forced to me, though it felt seamless ot the author. And at the same time, some other optional element that the author felt was a throw-in backup works perfectly for me and gets a higher score than the other element. In such cases, the entrant was definitely better served by listing all the elements the entry might meet.
So I don't directly penalize someone who lists more than three optional elements, though I notice that when someone tries to meet many optional elements, they end up with a bunch of 1's and 2's, whereas someone with a more focused entry will end up with more 2's and 3's. So, indirectly, I have noticed that attempting to meet many elements results in lower scores.
Another good piece of advice is to list the required elements too. That way the judges don't have to worry that you didn't meet one and give you a zero in Themes.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 6:27AM
#24
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Date Joined:
May 28, 2007
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Another good piece of advice is to list the required elements too. That way the judges don't have to worry that you didn't meet one and give you a zero in Themes.
I absolutely agree here. Tell me which elements you think you satisfied. Judging is hard enough without have to scour the entry trying to figure out "did she mean to satisfy element #2 or #5 here?" Spelling it out helps us see the entry from your perspective and helps us understand what you were trying to get across in it.
I also agree with Wrecan on the idea where fewer optionals are generally better. In my early experience making submissions, I tried to satisfy as many as I reasonably could...and ended up not satisfying any of them particularly well. So I learned to pick the minimum needed and design around those. Once I got those nailed down, I'd see if any of the others could be fit in gracefully. It really does help, as it focuses your creativity into a concise idea instead of forcing you to try to herd all the cats into a loosely cohesive idea. Of course, that's the way my brain works. God help the rest of you whose brains work like mine...
That said, feel free to add as many optionals as you like! I sincerely hope that you can work in 4-5 (or more?) in a really solid entry. THAT would make for some seriously awesome item set. And one I'd surely steal for my own game. 
Sorceror: "I'll attack the [solo monster] with Chaos Bolt."
Warden: "Don't you ever use encounter powers?!?!?"
Sorceror: (casually) "I don't need to."
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"Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live." - Martin Golding
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 6:52AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
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You need to use at LEAST three optionals. You can include all of them if you want.
I'm saying the opposite. Three is too many, and the options provided are so restrictive that they cease to be options and instead serve as straight-jackets. They might fit the item sets the judges had in mind when they crafted the competition requirements, but they restrict the variety of elements the participants can create.
I'll force-fit my item set into this straight-jacket, because I want to enter.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 6:57AM
#26
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Date Joined:
May 13, 2009
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Hm, they're not supposed to serve as straight-jackets at all. I certainly didn't have any sets in mind when I suggested any of this stuff. They're just cool concepts. They also help give people inspiration and make it a bit more exciting to come up with something that's both awesome and follows certain requirements. I can even show you that it's not straight jackets, just inspiration, by making a supplemental entry using the exact same optionals you picked and making something completely different It's sometimes annoying when you come up with something great and then realise it doesn't fit the optionals (but it's often a fun challenge to make it meet the optionals, which is often possible) but it's happened to me more often that the optionals actually inspired me and made my entry better then it would have been otherwise.
Epic Dungeon Master Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen! Your Kingdom awaits!Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 7:15AM
#27
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- Hero Artisan Gold Medalist
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Well hell, before I gave up on the last competition I was going to enter an item set. This should go nicely.
Resident Shakespeare
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 7:28AM
#28
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2004
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Some of the existing item sets have skills in addition to History, or do not use History at all, in their knowledge checks. Do we have to use History only, or can we use other skill checks in addition/besides History?
You can use other Skills in addition to History, but you must also include what information you learn as a result of a history check.
So, then you MUST include History as an option to obtain that knowledge?
Not a judge in this one, but I would take it to mean you must include history to obtain some knowledge. Nothing says you can't have different knowledge from a History check and, say, an Arcana check.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 7:44AM
#29
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2004
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You need to use at LEAST three optionals. You can include all of them if you want.
I'm saying the opposite. Three is too many, and the options provided are so restrictive that they cease to be options and instead serve as straight-jackets. They might fit the item sets the judges had in mind when they crafted the competition requirements, but they restrict the variety of elements the participants can create.
I'll force-fit my item set into this straight-jacket, because I want to enter.
Yeah, sometimes it can be tough to come up with something that fits the optionals. I always figured thats why they were there, though, to add to the challenge.
Personally, though, I never viewed them as straight jackets. In fact, if I don't have a good idea right off the bat I'll sometimes look through them and ask myself what optional or combination thereof might make for something interesting.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 10:00AM
#30
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Divine Astral Armor Individual Set - Plate armor, Shield, Gauntlets, Helm. Optional Elements - Foe Specific, Unlucky, Zealous. History CheckThe Dawn War was the cosmic conflict in the astral realm where a mighty battle raged between the various dominions. The astral sea is a great ocean where githyanki pirate ships, quom raiders and dominion ships travel. Hestavar, a wealthy city of exalted deities floats atop gold and silver clouds, is the home of Erathis, the god of civilization. It is there that Erathis created a divine set of armor for her 9 champion lords to battle Asmodeous forces. Each lord captained an Astral Vessel and the armor provided benefits for navigation and defense against the devils. The sets of armor were lost during the Dawn War. Each champion lord, upon their death, generated a mighty explosion which scattered the items across the Astral sea. It is said that anyone who wears the full set is marked by Asmodeous to die with a similar fate. Divine Astral Helm
| Divine Astral Helm |
Level 23+ |
| This ornate helm glows with a blue tint when worn in the Astral realm. It makes the wearer and allies less susceptible to fear effects and provides benefits when navigating the Astral Sea. |
| Level: 23 (425,000 gp) |
Level: 29 (2,625,000 gp) |
| Item Slot: Head (Lawful Good only)
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Property: +4 bonus to all skill checks used for navigating the Astral Sea.
Property: +2 item bonus to all saving throws against devils fear effects for the wearer and allies within 20 squares.
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Power ( Daily ) : Free Action. Use this power to gain a power bonus to damage rolls against Devils.
Level 23: +15 power bonus to damage rolls.
Level 29: +25 power bonus to damage rolls. |
Divine Astral Shield
| Divine Astral Shield |
Level 20+ |
| Activate the power of this shield to defend the ally from attack by a devil. |
| Level: 20 (125,000 gp) |
Level: 30 (3,125,000 gp) |
| Item Slot: Arms (Lawful Good only) |
| Property: Gain 5 resist damage from all attacks by devils. |
Power ( Daily ) : Immediate Interrupt. You can use this power when a nearby ally is struck by a ranged attack from a devil. You reflect the attack for 1/2 damage back onto the devil. The original target suffers no damage.
Level 20: Protect an ally within 5 squares of you.
Level 30: Protect an ally within 10 squares of you. |
Divine Astral Armor
| Divine Astral Armor |
Level 24+ |
| This armor has been crafted with a picture of silvery waves covering the plate armor. |
| Level: 24 +5 (525,000 gp) |
Level: 29 +6 (2,625,000 gp) |
| Item Slot: Plate (Lawful Good only) |
Property: You can fly within the Astral plane with speed equal to your normal speed.
Property: When reduced to 0 hit points or fewer, by a devil, you automatically expend a healing surge if you have any left, even if a healing surge was already used in the same round. |
Divine Astral Gauntlets
| Divine Astral Gauntlets |
Level 23 |
| These silvery blue gloves glow brightly in the presence of devils. |
| Item Slot: Hands (Lawful Good only) 425,000 gp |
| Property: Glow brightly when a devil is within one mile. |
| Property: Add 1d6 to all damage on a devil dealt with a melee weapon. |
| Power ( Encounter ) : Slide a single devil within 10 squares towards you. Choose an adjacent square for the devil to land on. An adjacent square must be free.
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Full Item Set
| Divine Astral Armor Set |
Level 25 |
| When all items are combined the wearer is imbued with a mighty power when facing the devils armada. |
Item Set: All 4 Divine Astral Items worn.
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| Property: Asmodeus mark. Wearer is three times as likely to attract random encounters with devils in the Astral Sea. |
| Property: +4 item bonus to all saving throws against devil attacks. Does not stack with the helms fear bonus. |
| Property: If the wearer is killed, one round later a mighty explosion on all devils within 20 squares inflicting 12d12 damage and scattering the armor to the Astral winds. |
| Power ( Daily ) : Throw a massive energy blast at a devil's Astral ship, potentially breaching the hull. The extent of the damage is dependent upon a skill check of Strength or Wisdom determined by the DM based upon distance from the hull, and size of the ship.
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DM NoteThe armor has no property or power effects if worn by a non-Lawful Good character. In this case the Divine Astral Armor armor still functions as +5 or +6 armor.
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