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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 5:20AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2005
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At last, an article where I agree with almost all of what was said!  The general thrust, which I agree with, seems to me not so much "the system can make bad players good" but rather "the system can support players in being good players". The odd thing is, as kendor has already mentioned in the comments to the article, this could just as well apply the the DM, the topic of last week's article. Parse the last paragraph like this: "A good player DM can overcome any of these shortcomings, but a player DM’s energy is better served in portraying his character monsters, immersing in the environment designing the world, coming up with cunning plans exciting and engaging encounters, adventures and campaigns and so on, rather than working against or continually re-inventing the system. A good system encourages good play DMing." ...and I think most roleplayers would agree with the idea of this, too.
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Balesir
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 5:31AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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This was a great article. I like how the description of bad players is as true today as it was when Mr Gygax wrote them.
Regarding using rules to make good DMs, I think Mr Mearls is right. His last article didn't just say that you shouldn't use rules to make good DMs and leave it at that. It added that it is critical for "designers to provide good DMing advice, easy to understand methods that beginners can learn, and flexible rules that help DMs build great campaigns and compelling adventures."
His point was that if you focus too much on using the rules to prevent bad DMs, you end up making them too restrictive for good DMs too. At the same time, all of the things that go into make a system work well for the Players means that the DM shouldn't have to spend time "continually re-inventing" the system.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 5:44AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2005
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I don't why, but I find those articles more and more... useless....
I know the word is harsh, but seriously, what is he doing here, and for the last weeks, other than telling self-evident truths on pnpRPGs that everyone already knows about...
Oh well, maybe I just miss the flame wars... don't know.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 5:58AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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At last, an article where I agree with almost all of what was said!
The general thrust, which I agree with, seems to me not so much "the system can make bad players good" but rather "the system can support players in being good players". The odd thing is, as kendor has already mentioned in the comments to the article, this could just as well apply the the DM, the topic of last week's article. Parse the last paragraph like this:
"A good player DM can overcome any of these shortcomings, but a player DM’s energy is better served in portraying his character monsters, immersing in the environment designing the world, coming up with cunning plans exciting and engaging encounters, adventures and campaigns and so on, rather than working against or continually re-inventing the system. A good system encourages good play DMing."
...and I think most roleplayers would agree with the idea of this, too.
DMs are players too.. eh.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 6:00AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2007
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At last, an article where I agree with almost all of what was said!
The general thrust, which I agree with, seems to me not so much "the system can make bad players good" but rather "the system can support players in being good players". The odd thing is, as kendor has already mentioned in the comments to the article, this could just as well apply the the DM, the topic of last week's article. Parse the last paragraph like this:
"A good player DM can overcome any of these shortcomings, but a player DM’s energy is better served in portraying his character monsters, immersing in the environment designing the world, coming up with cunning plans exciting and engaging encounters, adventures and campaigns and so on, rather than working against or continually re-inventing the system. A good system encourages good play DMing."
...and I think most roleplayers would agree with the idea of this, too.
DMs are players too.. eh.
No they aren't, they aren't allowed to have fun either.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 6:48AM
#16
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At last, an article where I agree with almost all of what was said!
The general thrust, which I agree with, seems to me not so much "the system can make bad players good" but rather "the system can support players in being good players". The odd thing is, as kendor has already mentioned in the comments to the article, this could just as well apply the the DM, the topic of last week's article. Parse the last paragraph like this:
"A good player DM can overcome any of these shortcomings, but a player DM’s energy is better served in portraying his character monsters, immersing in the environment designing the world, coming up with cunning plans exciting and engaging encounters, adventures and campaigns and so on, rather than working against or continually re-inventing the system. A good system encourages good play DMing."
...and I think most roleplayers would agree with the idea of this, too.
DMs are players too.. eh.
No they aren't, they aren't allowed to have fun either.
When I Dm my players know that if I'm not incessantly whining about how I need a crit to hit the Fighter after having his AC buffed out for a couple of encounters that they haven't done their jobs. :p
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."-Douglas Adams
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 8:22AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 8:29AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2008
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I don't why, but I find those articles more and more... useless....
Heh, you ever read 'Up On A Soapbox' by good ol' EGG?
Re: this week's topic.
News flash .. bad players ruin any game: team sports (e.g., soccer), competitive boardgames (e.g. Settlers of Catan), co-operative boardgames (e.g. Arkham Horror), groups in MMOs (e.g. Guild Wars, World of Warcraft). RPGs are no different!
Sadly the 'kick the guy out of your game!' advice from Gygax circa. '74 is still the best advice. There's no cure for Jerkdom yet, even in this age of wonder and marvels 
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 8:33AM
#19
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At last, an article where I agree with almost all of what was said!
The general thrust, which I agree with, seems to me not so much "the system can make bad players good" but rather "the system can support players in being good players". The odd thing is, as kendor has already mentioned in the comments to the article, this could just as well apply the the DM, the topic of last week's article. Parse the last paragraph like this:
"A good player DM can overcome any of these shortcomings, but a player DM’s energy is better served in portraying his character monsters, immersing in the environment designing the world, coming up with cunning plans exciting and engaging encounters, adventures and campaigns and so on, rather than working against or continually re-inventing the system. A good system encourages good play DMing."
...and I think most roleplayers would agree with the idea of this, too.
+1 on both accounts.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 9:03AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2005
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Sadly the 'kick the guy out of your game!' advice from Gygax circa. '74 is still the best advice. There's no cure for Jerkdom yet, even in this age of wonder and marvels
D&D has thought me that fire usually solves all my problems.
that or bees.
or bees that sting you with fire.
3rd ed SRD, character sheets, errata & free modules4th ed test drive - modules, starter rules, premade characters and character builder & character sheet, errata Free maps and portraits, dice, printable graph paper, campaign managing website, image manipulation program + token maker & zone markers"All right, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back. GET MAD! I DON'T WANT YOUR **** LEMONS! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THESE?! DEMAND TO SEE LIFE'S MANAGER! Make life RUE the day it thought it could give CAVE JOHNSON LEMONS! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?! I'M THE MAN WHO'S GONNA BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN! WITH THE LEMONS! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that's gonna BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!" -Cave Johnson, Portal 2
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