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2 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 10:14AM #81
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,520
Ok, finished going though the PP's.  Think i got everything (except MME).

Let me know if i missed anything.  Or if anyone has a sample build.
guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 10:26AM #82
Rayous
Date Joined: Mar 21, 2001
Posts: 401
shadow dancer lvl 16: Lingering Shadows (16th level): If you are hidden from a creature at the start of its turn, you are invisible to that creature until the end of its turn.

Means when you op them they still have the -5 to retaliate.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 10:34AM #83
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,520

Sep 21, 2011 -- 10:26AM, Rayous wrote:

shadow dancer lvl 16: Lingering Shadows (16th level): If you are hidden from a creature at the start of its turn, you are invisible to that creature until the end of its turn.

Means when you op them they still have the -5 to retaliate.


I have it, but under a differnet section.

Guess i'll put it in both.

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 11:00AM #84
Aramur
Date Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 19
I made a 15th lvl Assassin for a one-shot adventure featuring a lot of the Stealth tricks.

Nexa, level 15 Drow, Assassin, Gloaming Dancer
Build: Night Stalker Assassin
Guild Training: Night Stalker
Pact Initiate: Pact Initiate (fey pact)
Versatile Expertise: (Heavy Blade)/(Ki Focuses)
Darkfire: Darkfire Charisma
Background: Assassin, Drow - Outcast, Occupation - Hired Killer, Pivotal Event - You Kill, Recent Life - Mercenary Work (Assassin Benefit)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 13, Con 13, Dex 22, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 22.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 12, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 16.

AC: 28 Fort: 24 Reflex: 28 Will: 28
HP: 79 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +33, Bluff +18, Perception +12, Acrobatics +18, Thievery +22, Intimidate +20

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Diplomacy +13, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +8, Heal +7, History +6, Insight +7, Nature +7, Religion +6, Streetwise +13, Athletics +12

FEATS
Level 1: Assassin's Escape
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 4: Pact Initiate
Level 6: Cursed Shadow
Level 8: Empowering Shadows
Level 10: Versatile Expertise
Level 11: Skill Focus (Stealth)
Level 12: Paragon Defenses
Level 14: Skill Power

POWERS
Assassin at-will 1: Executioner's Noose
Assassin at-will 1: Shadow Storm
Skill Power: Persistent Tail
Assassin encounter 1: Nightmare Shades
Assassin daily 1: Targeted for Death
Assassin utility 2: Cloak of Shades
Assassin encounter 3: Cloaking Mist
Assassin daily 5: Heart of Dust
Assassin utility 6: Shadow Adept
Assassin encounter 7: Captured Shadow
Assassin daily 9: Wall of Shadows
Assassin utility 10: Seeker of Shadow
Assassin encounter 13: Well of Shades (replaces Nightmare Shades)
Assassin daily 15: Blood Shadows (replaces Heart of Dust)

ITEMS
Shadowdancer's Gloves (paragon tier)
Shadowdancer's Mask (heroic tier)
Shadowdancer's Cloak +3
Shadowdancer's Boots (paragon tier)
Shadowflow Drowmesh +3
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier)
Blade of the Eldritch Knight Longsword +3
Diamond Cincture (heroic tier)


Pre Combat
Usually there is no line-of-sight precombat and Nexa is moving, so the total cover or full concealment condition will be met. Through use of the Shadow Walk (Warlock feature gained by Cursed Shadow feat) Nexa always has concealment at the end of a move (of 3+ squares), so even if Nexa moves into line of sight, she remains hidden. Moving 3+ squares should be easy through use of Shadow Step, which combined with Gloaming Dancer, gives teleport 5 at this level. The disadvantage is that you need to start and end adjacent to creatures.

The Shadowdancers gloves also give Nexa concealment at the start of combat, if somehow she wasn’t moving the turn before that (and this lost concealment from Shadow Walk)

+33 to Stealth should mean an almost automatic success at this level if a roll is required.

Advantages
  • Shadowdancer’s Gloves give Nexa +1d6 damage when hidden.
  • Being hidden also gives combat advantage (+2 to attacks).
  • Being hidden disallows Nexa to be targeted by non-area attacks.  


During Combat
The preferred order of actions is: first use attack action, then use move action to be able to roll a Stealth check if you meet the other conditions.


Discovered!


After an attack you are not hiding anymore. This is not what you want! Use these strats to regain Hidden status.


Free


  1. Shadowdancer’s Cloak item daily power allows a Stealth check to remain hidden after an attack (but just hidden from from the target of the attack) without needing any conditions.
  2. Seeker of Shadow daily utility power allows one to remain invisible after the first attack of the encounter. Needs to be used when initiative is rolled.
  3. Shadowdancer’s Mask daily power allows one reroll of a Stealth check.


Immediate Interrupt


Shadow Adept, assassin encounter utility power. Teleports you 3 squares if you lose Hidden status and can then roll a Stealth check to hide even if you just have regular cover or concealment.


Minor


  1. Cloud of Darkness, a drow racial encounter power. Burst 1 that breaks line of sight until end of next turn.
  2. Shadow Form, assassin feature encounter power. You don’t need superior cover or total concealment but just regular cover or concealment to hide until end of next turn. Sustain minor.
  3. Cloak of Shades, assassin encounter utility power. Makes you invisible to all creatures more than 5 squares away.
  4. Shadowflow Armor encounter power gives you concealment to end of next turn. Handy when you cannot move to take advantage of Shadow Walk.


Move


Tag the target with Persistent Tail, an at will skill power. Next time target moves before your next turn, you can move as immediate reaction and can roll a Stealth check to hide even if you just have regular cover or concealment (which you tend to have due to Shadow Walk).


Standard


  1. Eyebite, warlock encounter power. If hits makes you invisible to the target until start of your next turn.
  2. Well of Shades, assassin encounter power in close blast 3. It can make you invisible until the end of your next turn.
  3. Wall of Shadows, assassing daily power. Creates a shadow wall that blocks line of sight.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 3:20PM #85
psk20
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 2,226
Aramur, one of the issues with Persistent Tail + Shadow Walk is that typically they both require a move action. White Lotus Evasion/Master Evasion + Long Step can get around this at epic. Other options include Persistent Tail + charge attack.

Rayous, Lingering Shadows is actually really solid if you have White Lotus Master Evasion! The shift is a free action, meaning that you will always be able to regain hidden after an OA. Sadly it doesn't work so well for leader granted attacks (unless the leader does some readies action shenanigans or something). 
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 7:48PM #86
Rayous
Date Joined: Mar 21, 2001
Posts: 401
For the champion of the vigil utility power, does anyone know if the obscured effect is lightly,  heavily, or totally?
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 8:06PM #87
LordOfWeasels
Date Joined: Apr 6, 2009
Posts: 7,822
Doesn't say.  PROBABLY "Lightly", since that gives the most common no-adjective obscurement-related penalty, "Concealment" - but that's a guess.

It's from Dragon, Dragon powers are often poorly proofread.  Submit it as a bug.
Confused about Stealth?  Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?"  You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.

Damage types and resistances:  A working house rule.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 11:31PM #88
warrl
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2009
Posts: 5,267
Format issue. In some of your lists you have a colon immediately followed by an open-parenthesis.

That's also known as a frowny face - like this

Please put a space between the two punctuation marks.

.

Also, for a sneaky character, free movement is good - another chance to hide, or if already hidden, a chance to not be where she was when she hid.

I happen to be doing a sneaky Bard:
* Virtue of Cunning/Valor class feature plus Wild Virtue feat - potentially a free-action shift, usually during someone else's turn, every round of every encounter.
* Verse of Triumph power - potentially a free-action shift for everyone in the party several times a round (depending on how many minions there are) for most of one encounter a day. Plus other lingering benefits. And 2W damage, half damage on a miss.

The Outlaw theme level 2and 6 powers look very nice (normal move-action movement, but with benefits), and the initial and level 10 powers can be useful.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2011 - 8:50AM #89
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,520
Made a movement section.

Still need to go though the items and such. 
guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2011 - 1:28PM #90
awaken_D_M_golem
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 2,660

Sep 9, 2011 -- 12:42PM, LordOfWeasels wrote:

Sep 9, 2011 -- 12:35PM, awaken_D_M_golem wrote:


Hey, the link to the "Hidden" guide ... I don't have the time to wade through a 100+ page thread.

I'm assuming you linked it because it's legit, but how accurate or C.O. proof is it ??
(not the cheese glasses ...)




I try to avoid including things that are actually *wrong* in my clarification guide.  As for CharOp?  CharOp is what you do once you understand the rules.  The Hidden thing is just to help people understand what the rules ARE.




Thanks ... and don't worry, I've some understanding of C.O.


(evil grin)

my kitty avatar's Royale Lineage ---> http://static.neatorama.com/images/2009-09/original-keyboard-cats.jpg

new helpful bg/mmx refugee locale ---> http://www.ruleofcool.com/smf/index.php/topic,632.0.html
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