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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e General Discuss.. How do I not seem like a jerk? (Monster Tactics)
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 19, 2011 - 10:47AM #11
Grimli
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2010
Posts: 198
Even intelligent monsters can be cunning.  That being said I tend to play zomies less tactically than hobgoblins whom should be tactically frustrating for players.

Threre is nothing wrong with using tactics.  Just be wary to have random or monsters that don't know the players destroy their tactics.
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 24, 2011 - 12:25PM #12
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,679

Oct 19, 2011 -- 10:47AM, Grimli wrote:

Even intelligent monsters can be cunning.  That being said I tend to play zomies less tactically than hobgoblins whom should be tactically frustrating for players.


That's a fine approach, of course, but I'll note that hobgoblins are intrinsically more "tactically frustrating" by the nature of their powers and abilities. As long as a DM knows to keep hobgoblin soldiers adjacent to one another (perhaps with the help of a hobgoblin commander) then they have a tactical advantage. The monsters play "smarter" without the DM having to actually play much differently, and despite the fact that the hobgoblins "only" have an Int of 11.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2011 - 1:56PM #13
GalIaddriel
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2011
Posts: 12
Heya,


You have to have a balance in the game which at at times can be very frustrating,not just for players but for the dm as well.


You cannot have all your monsters be master tacticians and vice versa mumbling idiots.Intelligence is an important factor when encountering monsters.You have to remember that the villians and monsters in your world didnt achieve there status by sheer luck or over whelming numbers(rare)  ,but by cunning ,stealth,trechoury,deceit,etc.A lich has his captains and troops the same as any feudal lord,and he will play dirty ,underhanded ,and be a master strategest when it comes to achieving his evil plans.


But on the other hand a random encounter in the woods with an owlbear would be ,an attack on a food source so maybe suprise or a scare tactic might be used,his aim is simple nourishment.


Not all rules are in a book,you have to create a flow to your game, which is not like a constant stategy game but fun and enjoyable for all.         
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 16, 2011 - 4:15AM #14
AnarchsDelight
Date Joined: Oct 16, 2011
Posts: 66
Look at the monsters and their abilities and compare them to the PCs. Then, ask yourself: what would be the most tactically memorable thing the monsters can do? Whatever it is, that is what you should have the foes act out.

Intelligence is not a good indicator as to how a monster will act. There are plenty of cunning and tactically dangerous monsters that have low intelligences. Look, instead, to their role and their unique abilities.

Ravenous Wolves

For example, consider the lowly, 1st-level ravenous wolf. It has an intelligence of 2 (but a wisdom of 12). Imagine an encounter with five of these creatures vs. a group of 5 1-st level PCs. How might it be run?

Ravenous wolves are skirmishers with a move speed of 8. Skirmishers rely on mobility to gain an advantage, and ravenous wolves are no exception. Tap into this role. If you do, your PCs will remember the fight much more than wolves that simply charge at the nearest foe and attack like brutes or soldiers.

Additionally, they have a basic attack that targets AC so the wolves would naturally avoid heavily-armored foes, using their high movement speed to skirt around hard-to-hit front liners to pick on a cloth or leather wearing target.

Their bite also grabs a target, which allows them to use another at-will power: "drag away." Use this to separate target PCs from defenders who will desparately be trying to stop the wolves from pulling away weaker party members.

Played in such a way, your cloth-wearing PCs are likely to get worried whenever the party hears the distant howl of wolves. Remember the real goal--make the encounter memorable!

Leaping Felldrake

Now consider a different encounter with five leaping felldrakes, instead. Like the wolves, these felldrakes have a low intelligence (3) and a high wisdom (15). Tactically, they should operate in a much different fashion than the wolves, however, and their role describes how: "lurker."

But two things make them memorable: instant camouflage and neck bite.

The former allows them to gain invisibility during combat, while the latter--used when they have combat advantage--allows them to do a special bite attack that will terrify PCs. The attack targets reflex; suddenly it's the plate-wearing paladins who are worried.  Once they've latched on, the bite continues doing damage automatically. That's enough to make even a barrel-chested PC feel panicky.  

Importantly, the felldrakes don't concern themselves with attacking every round, either individually or as a pack. Instead, they either seek to gain invisibility or combat advantage and situate themselves until they are primed. They literally lurk, using their advantages to cause sudden and unexpected bursts of chaos. 

Think how different this fight is from the wolves. Imagine PCs in a darkened cave, for example, with these strange felldrakes leaping out from the darkness to snap their jaws around an exposed neck. And when they miss, they scurry off and disappear, only to viciously attack again a couple rounds later. 

A good way to keep PCs on their toes is for the last of these monsters to go invisible and then let the combat "end." Player's will be unsure if the monsters might attack one more, or if it is safe to continue. Everyone will remain jumpy and you can spring the lurker back on them at a later time, if you want. That's memorable!

Other Examples

You'll find that the smarter monsters (i.e., higher intelligence) will tend to be controllers or artillery. By design alone, they'll have powers that make them appear more intelligent without having to do anything but play them in a tactically memorable way. For comparative examples look at the 1st-level Xivort Net Caster, Kobold Slinger or Dark Sun's Id Fiend.
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 20, 2011 - 1:39PM #15
milkducks
Date Joined: Jul 18, 2009
Posts: 165
In regard to the whole, "When should a creature risk punishment from the mark" question goes, I tend to play it strictly by the numbers whenever possible.  Just look at the stats quickly, and ask yourself some basic questions: What's the defender's AC?  Is it considerably higher than the other PC's AC?  Let's say, for example, that a monster is marked by a Fighter with 22 AC, and there's also a Rogue in melee range with a 19 AC.  Even after you consider the -2 penalty to attack rolls, it's still easier to hit the rogue.  That's basically all there is to it for me.  Is it easier to hit the defender, or the other PC?  The only time it really comes into question is when the defender's AC is exactly 2 higher than the other target, so, after you factor in the mark, the monster has an equal chance to hit either PC.  In that case, I'd probably choose the defender 90% of the time.  If the other PC's low on health, or about to do something big, though, I'd happily suffer an attack from the defender.
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 30, 2011 - 2:22PM #16
OOBI
Date Joined: Dec 30, 2011
Posts: 4
Everyone's pretty much right on this, there is no wrong answer... just get inside the monster's head.

-Wolves go for weak injured prey or those who run away from the group.  Pick a target.

-Zombies attack the nearest thing, or slowest/easiest thing if it's more easily done.  Dumb and lazy/random.

-If it's something sentient, it will go for either the biggest threat first or the garunteed kill.  Pick a target.

Marks don't mean anything, if it's an animal and is not sentient, it might care or it might not.  Sentient creatures can make the choice to ignore it or go with it.

... heck, when I DM, I tell anyone new (everyone who plays with me already knows) to the session: "I will try to kill you, that is my objective.  Your objective is to live and make your own story.  I'm just here to get in your way."

Just make it fun along the way and don't worry about stepping on toes, if they don't adapt in my sessions, they don't live... but it's always good to reward good gameplay and not "/cutscene=death" anything.  Just find your balance.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 11:14AM #17
JssSandals
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2010
Posts: 103
Getting in to the monster's personality and tactics will help you a lot.  Most of the monster sources will have some amount of flavor about their creature and where they come from.  If you're doing something homebrown, just get a general idea for how they would approach a fight.  Humanoids are much easier to handle.

My biggest suggestion however would be to add a decent amount of narrative to each decision the monster is making.  In the case of wolves, narrate something along the lines of "The pack leader lunges for the warlock, preying on the weak straggler and signaling the rest of his pack to follow suit."  A hobgolin phalanx unit should definitely have the leader barking orders out, shouting to his men to pin the party down, or to stand tough.  Adding little blurbs of conversation or narrative to your monster's actions goes a long way towards making it seem like you're not munchkining your monster's actions.
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/979299305_WsMkV-L.jpg
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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e General Discuss.. How do I not seem like a jerk? (Monster Tactics)
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