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Switch to Forum Live View Dagnir the Dead Plague Rat - Pariah build with a Tiny twist
2 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 6:47PM #1
monkeygentleman
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2011
Posts: 1,391


A variation on the Pariah build but focused on the possibilities of the Dead Rat Deserter Theme power, Body of the Rat.

When in rat form, you cannot attack. However, you can still Curse and Divine Challenge, since neither are attacks, nor do they have any implement or weapon keywords. Combining this with a constant, pumped up regeneration and the Plagued Regeneration feat that causes damage to adjacent enemies whenever you regen, plus Radiant One for more autodamage, every turn you're causing damage to enemies just by being nearby, and with invisibility from Evermeet Warlock they'll be triggering Divine Challenge frequently as well. This is under the interpretation that equipment includes items you can't attack with anyway, but can still gain the benefits of properties from.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Dagnir, level 30
Revenant, Paladin/Warlock, Evermeet Warlock, Radiant One
Hybrid Talent Option: Shadow Walk
Arcane Implement Proficiency Option: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Staff)
Choose your Race in Life: Longtooth Shifter
Spellscarred
Cursed (Stealth class skill)
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 28, DEX 14, INT 22, WIS 12, CHA 13
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 18, DEX 10, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 11
 
AC: 41 Fort: 48 Ref: 47 Will: 36
AC: 54 Fort: 61 Ref: 60 Will: 49 [effective defenses with TD & invisible]
HP: 186 Surges: 17 Surge Value: 46
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate +23, Stealth +24, Thievery +22
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Arcana +21, Athletics +15, Bluff +16, Diplomacy +16, Dungeoneering +16, Endurance +26, Heal +16, History +21, Insight +16, Nature +16, Perception +16, Religion +21, Streetwise +16
 
POWERS
Paladin Feature: Divine Challenge
Warlock's Curse  Power: Warlock's Curse
Longtooth Shifter Racial Power: Longtooth Shifting
Thievery Utility 2: Fast Hands
Warlock Utility 10: Ethereal Sidestep
 
FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Past Soul
Level 4: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 6: Shifting Defense
Level 8: Death's Blessing
Level 10: Superior Fortitude
Level 11: Superior Reflexes
Level 12: Revenant's Challenge
Level 14: Arcane Familiar
Level 16: Plagued Regeneration
Level 21: Student of the Plague
Level 24: Rapid Regeneration
Level 26: Ghostly Vitality
Level 26: Epic Will
Level 28: Epic Reflexes
Level 28: Epic Fortitude
Level 30: Unarmored Agility
 
ITEMS
Rod of Starlight +6 x1
Defensive Dagger +6 x1
Incisive Dagger Dagger +6 x2
Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness (epic tier) x1
Planestrider Boots (paragon tier) x1
Mantle of the Seventh Wind Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +6 x1
Mirrored Mask (epic tier) x1
Bag of Holding (heroic tier)
Potion of Healing (heroic tier)
Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3)
Mithrendain Steel Dagger +2
Life Charm +6 x1
Staff of the Traveler +1
====== End ======

REGENERATION:
6 Longtooth Shifter
+3 Plagued Regeneration
+9 Rapid Regeneration
18 damage
+5 Radiant One
+9 Pelor's Sun Blessing
+6 Radiant Vulnerability from Curse with Rod of Starlight
(+5 if hit with DC)
38 automatic necrotic/radiant/fire damage to adjacent (43 after hit with DC)

DIVINE CHALLENGE:
4 Divine Challenge
+1 Charisma
+5 Radiant One
+9 Pelor's Sun Blessing
+6 Radiant Vulnerability from Curse with Rod of Starlight
25 automatic radiant/fire to violators of Divine Challenge

SAMPLE TURN:

1 BEGINNING OF TURN: Gain 20HP, deal 18 damage to enemy, adding 20/25 as above for 38/43 damage
2 STANDARD: Total Defense (+8 defenses), shift>teleport from adjacent to adjacent to same enemy to become invisible (+5 defenses)
3 MINOR: Warlock Curse (sustain vulnerability 6 radiant)
4 MINOR: Divine Challenge
5 ENEMY TURN: Enemy targets him, misses. Enemy targets ally, takes 25 automatic damage, gains vulnerability 5 necrotic.
6 GOTO 1

RESULT:

You're a rat, hovering and flickering and disappearing around the battlefield. Everything around you gets sick and eventually dies, quicker if they try to attack your allies. You never have to return to human form, although if you get knocked below zero you might have to to chug a potion if your allies don't heal you, since you can't use item powers in rat form.

Inspired by Mellored for his question on how to attack while Tiny.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 7:22PM #2
ryuwizard98
Date Joined: Dec 7, 2010
Posts: 378
The World Tree Guardian ED's capstone would work well for this, or lmk if it doesnt.

 World Tree's Growth (30th level): You have regeneration equal to the number of healing surges you have remaining.

edit: if you could get it somehow o.o
My Works Show

My House Rules

Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter.

Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura.

Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage.

the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova.

Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR.

Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad.

Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion


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Sep 20, 2011 -- 12:56PM, Teracide wrote:

Sep 20, 2011 -- 12:39PM, ryuwizard98 wrote:

by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.





...Couldn't resist.



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2 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 8:32PM #3
monkeygentleman
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2011
Posts: 1,391
Regeneration doesn't stack, unless it specifically says "increases by", it won't help. What's lmk?
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 8:36PM #4
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,514
Aww... beaten to the tiny build Tongue out

You should definatly try and fit weakening challenge in there.

Guess i need to do a dead rat with iron defense (iron rat?)
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my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 8:52PM #5
monkeygentleman
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2011
Posts: 1,391
Oh mellored, you think of all the better ideas. Iron defense with damage reduce druid, paladin with revenant and weakening challenge... Already a better build. Need to rebuild him.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 8:54PM #6
monkeygentleman
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2011
Posts: 1,391
And would still work with plagued regeneration, there's an epic feat for druids if you don't want to go longtooth.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 9:19PM #7
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,514

Aug 31, 2011 -- 8:52PM, monkeygentleman wrote:

Oh mellored, you think of all the better ideas. Iron defense with damage reduce druid, paladin with revenant and weakening challenge... Already a better build. Need to rebuild him.


Not necessarily.  Not getting hit > reducing damage.  Since you avoid status effects as well.  And plauged regen doesn't work below 0 (not that you're likely to reach that far).

Also, there i think you can get a few THP for not attacking...  pacifist feat of some kind...  not sure.

And don't forget you can teleport INTO enemies squares (if they are medium+).    Which is what i was trying to exploit.  With Antipathy Gloves + HBO or the like.

Hmm..   Antipathy Gloves + Marshal of Letherna + Deft Footwork...  takes 3 squares to move 1, then you shift with them, take another 3 to move, then 2...   Can we boost movement cost higher?

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2011 - 6:46AM #8
monkeygentleman
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2011
Posts: 1,391
Interesting... I see what you were going for. Makes more use of being tiny than this build, honestly this might work just as well without being Tiny.

Pacifist feats still require an attack to gain the benefit of not dealing damage, so that's out.

I hadn't thought of teleporting into enemy squares. I like it! HBO won't work Tiny, though, as it still requires an attack.

Antipathy Gloves + Deft Footwork work just fine with this build, though, very clever. Means they can't get away. I like it. Could do Marshal of Letherna too if you're willing to sacrifice some damage, although I'm actually looking for ways to boost it. Any ideas?

What I'm actually thinking is that this build would work really well in groups. Two or three plague rats, all swarming in the same square as an enemy, all of their damage auras overlapping for multiplying damage. Too bad Divine Challenge overwrites itself. Pretty terrifying, too.

Aside from Rod of Starlight, there's no reason this build necessarily needs to be hybrid warlock. Sacrifice a bit of damage, can pull out a different hybrid and just MC warlock for Evermeet. What's a good hybrid to add? Rogue with Improved Cunning Sneak + Enshrouding Candle to gain invisible to all enemies instead of just the target? Wouldn't need MC warlock at all, frees up PP.

Actually... and this is a weird thought. If you grab an enemy, then transform into a rat, does that automatically break your grab? You can't make attacks, but it doesn't say anything about sustaining them. Go brawler with lots of improved grabs, combine it with the sustain/escape attempt punishment from the horrible grabbing monster, you're clinging to them dealing damage automatically every turn AND every time they try to escape. Nothing prevents you from sustaining with minor, TD with standard to shift/teleport/hide with evermeet/rogue, and with Sash of Ensnarement even if they do force move me one square away I'm still in grab reach so it wouldn't break the hold, and even if they did antipathy gloves + deft footwork means they wouldn't go far, and I could take a turn to grab again in human and repeat. Gotta check the Rules forum to see if this pans out, if it does that's freakin awesome.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2011 - 8:48AM #9
ryuwizard98
Date Joined: Dec 7, 2010
Posts: 378

Aug 31, 2011 -- 8:32PM, monkeygentleman wrote:

Regeneration doesn't stack, unless it specifically says "increases by", it won't help. What's lmk?





that's Let Me Know. And the ED was a suggestion for a larger source of base regen, albeit only at level 30.

My Works Show

My House Rules

Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter.

Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura.

Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage.

the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova.

Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR.

Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad.

Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion


One does not Show

Sep 20, 2011 -- 12:56PM, Teracide wrote:

Sep 20, 2011 -- 12:39PM, ryuwizard98 wrote:

by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.





...Couldn't resist.



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2 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2011 - 8:58AM #10
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,514

Sep 1, 2011 -- 6:46AM, monkeygentleman wrote:

What I'm actually thinking is that this build would work really well in groups. Two or three plague rats, all swarming in the same square as an enemy, all of their damage auras overlapping for multiplying damage. Too bad Divine Challenge overwrites itself. Pretty terrifying, too.


Hehe, and then when the monsters attack you, you can invoke the "bag of rat's" rule 

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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