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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 5:17AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
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Psikerlord, it is clear you want to do this. Why are you seeking our approval? Just do it and let us know how it went.
(Also, closing your first post in the thread with "What do you guys think?" and then refuting each and every post that doesn't agree with you doesn't give the impression that you care what anybody thinks.)
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 5:20AM
#32
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I think though rather than change the 4e mechanics, I would just equip the adventurers with items that have some incapacitating powers that are effective on lower level non-elite foes.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 5:49AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2008
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Make 4e less boring by giving them powers which ones kill and remove all strategy? Damn, that sounds boring.
Run less boring encounters, there you go, problem solved.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 6:02AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2007
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Psikerlord, it is clear you want to do this. Why are you seeking our approval? Just do it and let us know how it went.
(Also, closing your first post in the thread with "What do you guys think?" and then refuting each and every post that doesn't agree with you doesn't give the impression that you care what anybody thinks.)
haha, well just entertaining y'all with a bit of discussion, nothing more Big S.
Hmmm but enough for one night.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 6:28AM
#35
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To the OP: next time you might want to consider thinking a bit more about how you phrase your post. I think what you really wanted to say, was "How can I create a grittier more lethal feel to 4E combat?" (or something along those lines). It might have helped to keep other posters a bit more focused on useful discussion instead of just blowing you off.
Without a major mechanical overall 4E is going to always be a game where you widdle away at your enemies (and they widdle you back) until they eventually die, surrender or run away, so if widdling isn't your thing (maybe you're more into hewing or hacking) then you might want to look for different game. We could spend a bunch of time discussing what you would have to do to the system to accomplish this, but my advice would be to check out other games that do that feel better.
Other games that I think do the kind of combat the OP is looking for well are the Warhammer fantasy rpg (I'd recommend 2e or 3e), Hackmaster, Savage Worlds and potentially any FATE based game. You might also want to check out Barbarians of Lemuria (it's free and awesome). The problem some people have with these games is that they are considered "rules lite" and lack some of the tactical type options 4E has (as well as the opportunity to munchkin), though the 3E version of warhammer has plenty of tactical choices and features a more lethal/gritty combat system (I'm playing in a 3E warhammer game right now, and I'm starting to like it a lot better than D&D). The main problem with 3E warhammer is that you have to get used to rolling custom dice pools, there are a lot of components, which makes set up a bit of pain (though it's not really as bad as some people make it out to be). It's also a very setting specific game, but fortunately the warhammer setting is pretty cool.
The game I'm most excited about right now is Barbarians of Lemuria. It is a simple rules lite game with fast and bloody combat, but still really interesting. It does sword and sorcery flavor really well, which I perfer to high fantasy. I've created a houserule stunt system for it that is based on the one from the Dragon Age rpg, and basically it lets you spend your hero points to get stunt points, and the stunt points can be spent to perform pretty much any tactical type maneuver you might want to do without needing specific powers like you do in 4E (so one chart essentially replaces dozens of 4E martial powers). Named villains get their own Villain Points, and this prevents them from easily being one-shoted by a PC. However, it is quite possible to take a standard villain down in one or two shots. PCs can potentially be taken out in a couple of hits as well, but they have hero points that they can use to save themselves in a pinch.
So yeah there are plenty of alternatives to D&D.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 6:38AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2009
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The solution to this lies with your DM. If combat is too long because enemies have too much HP then all s/he needs to do is lower enemy HP. When I DM I frequently use "Standard Minions". These are Standard enemies that go down in 2-4 hits no matter how much damage was done. They don't have limited attacks like regular minions but rather the full suite of options available like normal standard enemies. If combat needs to be tougher on the PC's raise enemy damage by a few points or add more minions/standards. I also use a system of morale and fatigue for enemies. Once combat has gone past 5 rounds and the PC's are in clean up mode enemies are more susceptible to surrender, fleeing, or the one shot kill. Point is, if your encounters are taking too long just talk to your DM and tell him to get his nose out of the rules book and loosen up a bit.
Host of the HTL Podcast Series: http://www.holdtheline.com/media/category/htl-podcast.6/ 
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 7:03AM
#37
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my advice would be to check out other games that do that feel better.
Terrible advice. Why is it so many posters respond to someones issue with a particular aspect of 4e with 'well go find another game'.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 7:19AM
#38
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my advice would be to check out other games that do that feel better.
Terrible advice.
Why is it so many posters respond to someones issue with a particular aspect of 4e with 'well go find another game'.
Because every game has their strengths and weaknesses, and certain games are designed to capture a certain mood.
For instance, 4E is intended to create a pretty cinematic feel. If you don't want that feel then there are other games out there with mechanics that are designed to create a grittier feel. I think it is important to figure out what your personal taste is, and then find the game that best fits that taste. Plus there are tons of great rpgs out there, so why be monogomous with your rpgs (I'm married, I've already got plenty of monogomy to deal with)?
Sure there are lots of ways to alter 4e to make it suite your taste, and that's cool if you want to do that, but IMO you are missing out if you don't at least sample other games.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 7:20AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2007
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my advice would be to check out other games that do that feel better.
Terrible advice.
Why is it so many posters respond to someones issue with a particular aspect of 4e with 'well go find another game'.
Because at least to me I hear:
I dont like Chess, it doesnt have enough buying and selling properties! And It needs a space called free parking!
Why not play Monopoly?
NO STOP TELLING ME I NEED TO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME! TELL ME HOW TO MAKE THIS WORK!
 Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 7:20AM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2010
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my advice would be to check out other games that do that feel better.
Terrible advice.
Why is it so many posters respond to someones issue with a particular aspect of 4e with 'well go find another game'.
Well I think it can depend on what the problem the poster has. If the issue is that the poster feels the combat in 4E sucks then finding another game starts to make a lot of sense. 4E us almost always a pretty combat heavy game, you can do some things to effect the length or style but if this element is not fun for the poster its maybe time to move on as its likely to be a pretty large chunk of game time in any 4E campaign.
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