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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:32AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
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Save or die would make fights quicker, would they not? And they would create other options to defeating an enemy other than reducing their HP to zero, yes?
In your reply, you imply that your objective is making combat go faster, an objective that is different from (but does not preclude) options to defeating an enemy other than reducing their HP to zero. The latter is merely a subset of the former. Indeed, you hint at this with mention of DM surrender and intimidation.
Before implementing Save or Die spells, consider the dozens of suggestions in the Compilation of Combat Accelerators thread. Pick and choose what tickles your fancy and see if it meets your objective of speeding up combat.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:32AM
#12
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OK, so musing on why 4e combat gets boring, it struck me that the only way to end a combat is by reducing your enemy to zero HP (excluding DM surrender or the occasional use of intimidate). You can push or daze your foe all day but if you don't damage him down to zero it's all for nought. It didn't use to be like that, of course: charm person, sleep, slay living, etc spells, and for martial characters (to a lesser degree) could incapacitate foes with disarms, overbearing, or if you go way back I believe rogues could do "knock outs" - things of that nature.
What we need is to bring back the save or die button. And before folks get up in arms about spellcasters - there's no reason why all characters shouldn't have these powers. Martial: Decapitating strike, Sever artery, Super Stare Down, etc. For spellcasters there are plenty of old spells that could be brought back: Petrify, Slay living, etc.
Daily or possibly even encounter powers at higher levels. As you get higher the chance of getting the death effect increase, it might start off as hit then save, then hit and save with a penalty, or just save, or save with a penalty, and then in highest epic: just dead. Or maybe opposed checks or something. But you get the idea. Save or die would (i) add other options on how to end combat, making it less boring, and (2) make combat faster/less grind.
What do folks think?
have you read any 4thcore? you might like it.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:33AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
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Occasional dead NPC in one hit = good!
Frequent dead PC in one hit = Not Good.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:38AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2010
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Save or Die: Bad.
Three Saves or Die: Maybe not.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:45AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2007
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Save or die would make fights quicker, would they not? And they would create other options to defeating an enemy other than reducing their HP to zero, yes?
In your reply, you imply that your objective is making combat go faster, an objective that is different from (but does not preclude) options to defeating an enemy other than reducing their HP to zero. The latter is merely a subset of the former. Indeed, you hint at this with mention of DM surrender and intimidation.
Before implementing Save or Die spells, consider the dozens of suggestions in the Compilation of Combat Accelerators thread. Pick and choose what tickles your fancy and see if it meets your objective of speeding up combat.
Not just quicker, but other options to ending fights simply by damage. Dm surrender doesn't really count as an option for PCs. The intimidate is a true option - yes this sort of thing I think there needs to be more of.
As for combat accelerators, we've tried them. Fights still take 2 hours.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:46AM
#16
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I am still working through fully understanding 4e - hence why I was working on my battle tester to fully understand the new combat mechanics. Compared to 2e though the first thing I notice a) Monsters have more hitpoints, so battles will last longer. (Characters have more HP too which I do like). b) A lot of powers do not scale to higher levels. Its b) that I'm astounded at. In 2e a wizard of level 10 could have at least 3 fireballs a day, each of which did 10d6 damage. Now in 4e a fireball does 3d6 + int modifier damage. WTF As to the saving throws, they worked just fine in 2e. Nobody cares if a monster fails, and there were only so many save or die spells so it was not overpowered. As to the characters it is up to the DM if he equips the monsters with save or incapacitated spells.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:46AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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Occasional dead NPC in one hit = good!
These are called minions.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:47AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2007
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Occasional dead NPC in one hit = good!
Frequent dead PC in one hit = Not Good.
Ah I dunno. In 3 yrs my group has had one death. It's very hard to die in 4e. A few monsters with one off daily = dead would be fine, I think. Raise dead is cheap. (but that's another discussion)
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:48AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2007
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Save or Die: Bad.
Three Saves or Die: Maybe not.
3 saves or die = never die.
I would prefer a one save = die model.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2011 - 4:51AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2011
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Occasional dead NPC in one hit = good!
Frequent dead PC in one hit = Not Good.
Ah I dunno. In 3 yrs my group has had one death. It's very hard to die in 4e. A few monsters with one off daily = dead would be fine, I think. Raise dead is cheap. (but that's another discussion)
Maybe your campaign is just easy.
My Sunday group has had 6 deaths so far (at 10th level), with only one of the original party members left.
My Friday group has gone through 2 TPKs and has had three individual deaths by 9th level.
There were no instant deaths.
Formerly known as Novacat. I was banned for requesting my own post be deleted. I had almost 7,000 posts, and had been a member for over 6 years. Rest in peace.
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