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2 years ago ::
Aug 24, 2011 - 4:15PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2008
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Also, can I suggest starting slgithly higher in level like 4-6? The lower level you are, the more you will be at the mercy of a bad roll or two. You will get killed by the bell curve alone. The higher in levels you get, the more control and response you can have toward things like that.
I have to agree with this. Start at a higher level. The PCs won't be able to customize/optimize enough for their low numbers at level 2-3; there's only so much you can do with only 2 feats to work with.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 24, 2011 - 5:49PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2005
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Also think of the adventures you're running - "entry level" adventures are easier - I had a group of 2 characters once they hit level 2 successfully run through Kobold Keep because they were optimized, using Themes/Backgrounds.
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
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2 years ago ::
Aug 24, 2011 - 5:50PM
#23
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2005
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I would actually just give one or two of the players an extra PC each. Stick to simple characters like the Slayer, Knight or Scout and it should be fine. I have a 2-person (!) group who manage 4 (and sometimes 5) PCs between them perfectly adequately.
That is what I would suggest as easiest too. Just give everyone an extra character. Giving out minions would be a good option too, but they would be a lot easier to wipe out.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 24, 2011 - 10:13PM
#24
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So to give you an example of how things drop quickly as your character levels falls. I took my battle tester and plugged in level 4 characters versus 2 beholder guaths whos sleep rays where turned off. Party of 4 characters (ranger, cleric, fighter, fighter) survived 80% of the time. Party of 3 characters (ranger, cleric, fighter) survived 36% of the time. With sleep ray things would have turned even nastier. Here is a sample instance of the 3 characters versus the 2 beholders. -----------------
round 1
Caramon moves to (4,7) to be closer to Beholder Gauth A who is still 7 squares away
Caramon closes in on Beholder Gauth A.
Tanis moves to (4,5) within range of Beholder Gauth A.
Beholder Gauth A fire ray missed Caramon with a 13 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray critically hits Caramon for 12 damage (36/48).
Caramon is Weakend.
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Caramon with a 9 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Caramon with a 9 (needed 14)
Goldmoon moves to (4,4) to be closer to Beholder Gauth A who is still 10 squares away
round 2
Caramon brute strike hits Beholder Gauth A for 17 damage (85/102).
Tanis shadow wasp strike missed Beholder Gauth A with a 2 (needed 8)
Beholder Gauth A fire ray missed Caramon with a 12 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray missed Caramon with a 10 (needed 14)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray hits Caramon for 13 damage (23/48).
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Caramon with a 3 (needed 14)
Goldmoon moves to (4,4) to be closer to Beholder Gauth A who is still 10 squares away
round 3
Caramon gets a second wind.
Tanis evasive strike critically hits Beholder Gauth A for 25 damage (60/102).
Beholder Gauth A fire ray missed Caramon with a 9 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray missed Caramon with a 10 (needed 14)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray hits Caramon for 13 damage (22/48).
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Caramon with a 6 (needed 14)
Goldmoon aids Tanis who gains combat advantage over Beholder Gauth A.
Goldmoon daunting light missed Beholder Gauth A with a 3 (needed 15)
round 4
Caramon triggers regeneration with boundless endurance.
Caramon boundless endurance missed Beholder Gauth A with a 13 (needed 14)
Tanis twin strike hits Beholder Gauth A for 12 damage (48/102).
Tanis twin strike hits Beholder Gauth A for 8 damage (40/102).
Beholder Gauth A fire ray hits Caramon for 17 damage (5/48).
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray missed Caramon with a 5 (needed 14)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Caramon with a 8 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray kills Caramon.
Goldmoon moves to (4,4) to be closer to Beholder Gauth A who is still 10 squares away
round 5
Tanis twin strike hits Beholder Gauth A for 5 damage (35/102).
Tanis twin strike hits Beholder Gauth A for 9 damage (26/102).
Beholder Gauth A moves to (4,12) within range of Tanis.
Beholder Gauth A fire ray hits Tanis for 13 damage (25/38).
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 12 (needed 13)
Beholder Gauth B moves to (4,13) within range of Tanis.
Beholder Gauth B fire ray hits Tanis for 17 damage (8/38).
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 8 (needed 13)
Goldmoon's healing strike marks Beholder Gauth A and heals Tanis.
Goldmoon sacred flame missed Beholder Gauth A with a 7 (needed 15)
round 6
Tanis gets a second wind.
Beholder Gauth A fire ray missed Tanis with a 11 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 11 (needed 13)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 6 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 12 (needed 13)
Goldmoon's healing word heals Tanis.
round 7
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth A with a 4 (needed 8)
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth A with a 4 (needed 8)
Beholder Gauth A fire ray missed Tanis with a 13 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray hits Tanis for 7 damage (28/38).
Tanis is Weakend.
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 13 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray hits Tanis for 10 damage (18/38).
Tanis is Weakend.
Goldmoon's healing word heals Tanis.
round 8
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth A with a 7 (needed 8)
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth A with a 7 (needed 8)
Beholder Gauth A fire ray missed Tanis with a 8 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 8 (needed 13)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 10 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray hits Tanis for 6 damage (21/38).
Tanis is Weakend.
Goldmoon cure light wounds on Tanis.
round 9
Tanis twin strike hits Beholder Gauth A for 14 damage (12/102).
Tanis twin strike hits Beholder Gauth A for 8 damage (4/102).
Beholder Gauth A fire ray missed Tanis with a 11 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray hits Tanis for 6 damage (24/38).
Tanis is Weakend.
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 1 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 12 (needed 13)
Goldmoon moves to (4,4) to be closer to Beholder Gauth A who is still 8 squares away
round 10
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth A with a 3 (needed 8)
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth A with a 3 (needed 8)
Beholder Gauth A fire ray missed Tanis with a 6 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth A exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 3 (needed 13)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 3 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 7 (needed 13)
Goldmoon moves to (4,4) to be closer to Beholder Gauth A who is still 8 squares away
round 11
Tanis twin strike kills Beholder Gauth A.
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 11 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray hits Tanis for 7 damage (17/38).
Tanis is Weakend.
Goldmoon moves to (4,4) to be closer to Beholder Gauth B who is still 9 squares away
round 12
Tanis twin strike hits Beholder Gauth B for 13 damage (89/102).
Tanis twin strike hits Beholder Gauth B for 9 damage (80/102).
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 14 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray hits Tanis for 11 damage (6/38).
Tanis is Weakend.
Goldmoon moves to (4,4) to be closer to Beholder Gauth B who is still 9 squares away
round 13
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth B with a 6 (needed 8)
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth B with a 6 (needed 8)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 13 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 7 (needed 13)
Goldmoon moves to (4,4) to be closer to Beholder Gauth B who is still 9 squares away
round 14
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth B with a 2 (needed 8)
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth B with a 2 (needed 8)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 13 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Tanis with a 7 (needed 13)
Goldmoon moves to (4,4) to be closer to Beholder Gauth B who is still 9 squares away
round 15
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth B with a 7 (needed 8)
Tanis twin strike missed Beholder Gauth B with a 7 (needed 8)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Tanis with a 4 (needed 15)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray kills Tanis.
Goldmoon moves to (4,10) to be closer to Beholder Gauth B who is still 3 squares away
round 16
Beholder Gauth B fire ray hits Goldmoon for 14 damage (25/39).
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Goldmoon with a 3 (needed 13)
Goldmoon guardian of faith hits Beholder Gauth B for 4 damage (76/102).
round 17
Beholder Gauth B guardian of faith hits Beholder Gauth B for 11 damage (65/102).
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Goldmoon with a 6 (needed 12)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Goldmoon with a 4 (needed 13)
Goldmoon sacred flame missed Beholder Gauth B with a 4 (needed 15)
round 18
Beholder Gauth B guardian of faith missed Beholder Gauth B with a 13 (needed 14)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray hits Goldmoon for 15 damage (10/39).
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray missed Goldmoon with a 2 (needed 13)
Goldmoon gets a second wind.
round 19
Beholder Gauth B guardian of faith missed Beholder Gauth B with a 2 (needed 14)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray missed Goldmoon with a 8 (needed 12)
Beholder Gauth B exhaust ray hits Goldmoon for 9 damage (10/39).
Goldmoon is Weakend.
Goldmoon sacred flame missed Beholder Gauth B with a 6 (needed 15)
round 20
Beholder Gauth B guardian of faith missed Beholder Gauth B with a 6 (needed 14)
Beholder Gauth B fire ray kills Goldmoon.
Characters lived 36% of the time
-------------
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2 years ago ::
Aug 24, 2011 - 10:53PM
#25
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The problem with a 3 PC party is the economy of actions... the group simply doesn't have enough actions to fight against the 4+ monsters actions and their damage output.
Really, I'd suggest a few things. The easiest being... whip up a few companion characters to join the party and even out the actions. OR... have the players dice off(top 2 win) each round for another set of actions each round. Or... scale back the fights to less than a 5 pc set of monsters. Or, some combination of the two.
Preferences... Not where they should be.
Asking someone if they're Trolling you is in violation of section 3 of the Code of Conduct.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 25, 2011 - 12:29AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2001
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The party in that demo seems sub-optimal (i.e. I hit Shadow Wasp Strike and stopped reading).
Jeff Heikkinen
DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
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2 years ago ::
Aug 25, 2011 - 7:17AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2010
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Hi!  I think, by experience, that a 3-players party has to follow the ideas suggested in the Dungeon Master's Guide: no striker is the best option, even if it seems a bit odd...Why? Because with a good choice of the controller and the defender, you'll still get a good damage output and you can get rid of big enemy parties. I don't know what's the best combination, but a well built Wizard (between a "war" and a "control" wizard), a Paladin (strong defenses and some healing) and, let's say, a Ardent (good healing, lots of temporary hit points and melee attacks), will give you the complete range of options you usually get from a common 4-players party... To do that AT BEST, each player has to sacrifice something from time to time, in order to get the best option at each level, relying a lot on powers/feats interaction. IMHO.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 25, 2011 - 7:25AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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A lazylord style npc IE - perhaps an inspiring innocent to protect ... is my favorite round out the party tool - it ought to keep the action economy flowing nicely
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2 years ago ::
Aug 25, 2011 - 7:51AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2005
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You can also get creative with magic items - if you are willing to work outside the box.
I had at one time created a magic ring for a group when they were down a player that had an encounter power that summoned a fairly mindless fire elemental as a free action.
The player felt awesome for getting a magic item. The group got some extra help during combat. And I didn't have to go back and tweak any of the encounters.
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
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2 years ago ::
Aug 25, 2011 - 7:56AM
#30
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I am sort of looking for ideal 3 person party suggestions. (i.e. race and classes) that could somewhat surive 5 person encounters but also feel challenging.
fighter/cleric hybrid, ranger, and an ardent
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