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2 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2011 - 3:39AM #1
Duskweaver
Date Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 3,633
I have hit a small (literally!) problem in writing my ongoing Dark Sun story. According to the map of Nibenay in the 4e DSCS, the city is considerably less than a mile across. If the scale on that map is accurate, then Nibenay, a city with an urban population of around 24,000, has about the same area as the small town of Sedgefield, near where I live, which has a population less than a fifth of that. I realise Nibenay ought to be somewhat more densely inhabited than a 21st century English small town, but this just seems ridiculous. So, I'm wondering if the scale on that map is simply wrong. Are there any maps of Nibenay in older publications, or any other indications of the city's correct size? Note that I'm not questioning the population figures, just the city's physical size.

Hopefully, someone can resolve this fairly quickly. I really want to get on with writing the damn story, but I'm right at the point where I'm describing the route from the Mekillot Gate to the Naggaramakam, and having the road be only 500 yards long (and the city's biggest market square - explicitly described as "enormous" in the DSCS - being less than 50 yards across!) is blowing the crap out of my suspension of disbelief.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2011 - 5:26PM #2
BlackKnight1239
Date Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1,311
...Does it actually matter? Just make it the way you want it. Will anyone really notice? Will anyone really care? Isn't this just an oversight because who knows how big a city with X number of people will be, and the artist isn't exactly schooled on the matters? I can't really see why you'd let this stand in the way of writing.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2011 - 5:56PM #3
nchsh
Date Joined: Jul 17, 2011
Posts: 2
I agree with BlackKnight1239, it's your game, do what you want.  However, I just pulled the old Nibenay map from the Ivory Triangle boxed set and...there's no mistake, Nibenay is tiny.  The original map scale was 1" = 150 ft.  The widest part of the city only measures 14" inches, so 2100 ft., roughly half a mile or .8 kilometers.  I think the original inspiration for Nibenay was Angkor Wat, which is not much larger than Nibenay (about a square kilometer). Angkor supported a population of probably about a million people, but mind you, this was all of Angkor (about 1000 sqare kilometers), Angkor Wat was just the largest of about a thousand temple complexes in the region.  Despite that, the population desity of Nibenay is not unrealistic.  Consider that the highest population density on earth is Monaco, which is about 3/4 of a square mile and has 32,000 people, or 43,000 people/sq mi.--about the same as Nibenay.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2011 - 6:26PM #4
angelus_obscura
Date Joined: Feb 6, 2006
Posts: 1,111
Isn't Nibenay called the City of Spires? Apartments, skyscrapers, and sublevels, oh my.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 1:11AM #5
Duskweaver
Date Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 3,633
All the city maps in the DSCS are similarly tiny, so it seems this is intentional. My issue is not just with the population density (after some calculations, Nibenay's works out about the same as the city of Chennai in India, which actually seems almost reasonable), but with the size of individual features in the city. For example, Sages' Square, the biggest market square in Nibenay, described in the text as being "enormous" is only 140 feet across according to the map. The Slave Market is even smaller, at around 60 feet across. The "city within a city", the Naggaramakam, is about 700 feet across (although I can live with this, since probably only a couple of hundred templars at most actually live there). The main market square in the town where I live could comfortably accomodate two Sages' Squares (or 12 Slave Markets), and it's certainly not a place anybody would describe as "enormous". My house would barely fit inside Nibenay's Slave Market. The Palm Court (which is too small to even really show up on the map) is probably about the size of my bedroom.

Anyway, I can work with this. I'll just assume individual features on the map, such as Sages' Square, are not meant to be exactly to scale. In the case of the Palm Court, that pretty much has to be the case. It was just a bit of a shock, really looking at the maps for the first time, to see how physically tiny the Athasian city-states are meant to be, since the descriptive text in the DSCS doesn't really give that impression.

Thanks, everyone.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 5:54AM #6
TheNinjaD
Date Joined: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 293
You're right, it's not perfect. However, I have never seen WotC put that amount of thout or detail into anything, so I'm not really suprised. I'd say a high population density and multilevel structures explain it well enough and I'd just go with it. Most players probably won't notice.

If it's a big enough deal to you that you want to remake the map, I say go for it...and please do share.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 7:08AM #7
Phoenix_M
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 534
They (WotC) tripled the size of the overland map, just triple the size of the citys as well.
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