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Switch to Forum Live View From The Labs XI: The Bladesinger's Band
2 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 11:38PM #21
DoctorBadWolf
Date Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 6,752

Aug 24, 2011 -- 8:23AM, mccowen wrote:

Aug 23, 2011 -- 9:16PM, DoctorBadWolf wrote:

Which of the three cha/dex builds were you thinking for hexblade? The two fey pacts are probably better choices in this case, since they are more focused on being strikers, where the gloom blade is almost more of a controller than a striker. The winter blade will be easier to work up, probably, but not by much. (we all know the feat taxes for light blade arcane melee combatants)


White Well. (I'll spend some time, probably late tonight, throwing more builds up in the post).  Imposing even weak radiant vulnerability is a nice cherry on top of a decent nova.

I would have loved to do Gloom Pact, since I really think it's got better controller potential than the bladesinger.  But it requires some non-Essentials feats to really shine, IMO, so I think I'll leave it for a future test.

Aug 23, 2011 -- 9:16PM, DoctorBadWolf wrote:

Another aside (I hope that at some point, someone throws the non int striker bladesinger into a lab, since that seems to be the most practical way to build one.)


Absolutely planning on a thri-kreen or half-elf bladesinger at some point in the relatively near future (among other things, after I'm done working on XDMC 30).  But first I wanted to get a baseline for the performance of the class as it was apparently intended--particularly since my feeling is the broader the options for other PCs, the worse the bladesinger will look by comparison.





Sweet. Heh, it'll be kind of cool to see a striker bs and controller hexblade in a test, to compare to this one. :D One thing I do like about the new design is the fluidity in terms of source, role, etc.

Can't wait to see the results.


More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.



Mar 8, 2012 -- 1:58PM, Skeptical_Clown wrote:

  I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 26, 2011 - 7:55AM #22
mccowen
  • Heroic Dungeon Master
Date Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Posts: 1,859
All the PCs are up in the first post.  I forget how many really good feats--exemplars of good design and staples of optimized builds--are not found in Essentials only.  I had to go back and remove Vicious Advantage from the hunter, and yank a bastard sword out of the warpriest's hands.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 26, 2011 - 3:47PM #23
Gadren
  • Herder of Hybrids
Date Joined: Sep 27, 2003
Posts: 1,674

Aug 23, 2011 -- 3:49PM, erachima wrote:

Aug 23, 2011 -- 3:08PM, Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:

Aug 23, 2011 -- 3:06PM, tobascodagama wrote:

Jesus Christ, I even slapped a smiley on the end, what do you want from me? Do I have to preface all of my sarcastic remarks with "WARNING: MAY CONTAIN JOKES"?




Sorry, just seems a lot of people seriously think that happens. And to be fair, your smiley could have been malicious looking forward to a poor showing by the bladesinger.




It does happen if you play high-level LFR, or if the elite controller gets lucky with his recharge dice, etc.

And frankly, those are the situations that deserve to be tested. Not "what happens in a perfectly fair and average situation?", but rather "what happens when the encounter goes to hell and you actually need all those cool daily abilities that were handed out for precisely this reason?"

Higher baseline performance cannot make up for a lack of trump cards, and it indeed may have the exact opposite effect, by encouraging the DM to build encounters that challenge that baseline and are therefore overwhelming when bad luck comes into play.



Heh, high level LFR? It seems once you hit level 7 this kind of thing is not uncommon. (At least with the old adventures. 90% of the LFR players in my area quit about a year ago due to frustrations over either LFR or WotC. So I haven't gotten to play much since then. )
I played one H3 adventure where the entire party was stun-locked from the very start until the combat ended with us being TPKed. Every time someone would save against the initial stun, another creature would stun that player.
Some of the modules written for organized play are just that terrible. You really have to be careful what you play. There is a difference between challenging and frustrating, and I don't know why some of these writers can't seem to understand that.

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2011 - 1:41AM #24
jonathan_sicari
Date Joined: Sep 1, 2008
Posts: 3,362
The Hunter is a single target controller, not a striker, please switch to a crossbow build.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2011 - 2:00AM #25
erachima
Date Joined: Sep 4, 2010
Posts: 7,679
A "single target controller" is just a slow striker.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2011 - 11:34AM #26
mccowen
  • Heroic Dungeon Master
Date Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Posts: 1,859

Aug 27, 2011 -- 1:41AM, jonathan_sicari wrote:

The Hunter is a single target controller, not a striker, please switch to a crossbow build.


Can you explain why?  Given the Essentials-only nature of this particular test--and therefore the superior crossbow and fun feats like Steady Shooter are out--the longbow has better range, a larger weapon die, and a better Expertise feat.

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2011 - 9:21PM #27
jonathan_sicari
Date Joined: Sep 1, 2008
Posts: 3,362
You have the benefits of the feats reversed, especially with the concealment likely in the encounter you mentioned. The Hunter's job is to lock a member of Team Monster out of the fight while the strikers and Leader kill. Blinding a Elite or solo makes it so much harder for that monster to function and unless the mob has tremor sense, following up with immobilize prone and slides can keep a monster down until team Hero is ready to kill it.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2011 - 8:38AM #28
mccowen
  • Heroic Dungeon Master
Date Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Posts: 1,859

Aug 28, 2011 -- 9:21PM, jonathan_sicari wrote:

You have the benefits of the feats reversed, especially with the concealment likely in the encounter you mentioned.


But Crossbow Expertise only allows you to ignore the effects of cover, not concealment.

Aug 28, 2011 -- 9:21PM, jonathan_sicari wrote:

The Hunter's job is to lock a member of Team Monster out of the fight while the strikers and Leader kill. Blinding a Elite or solo makes it so much harder for that monster to function and unless the mob has tremor sense, following up with immobilize prone and slides can keep a monster down until team Hero is ready to kill it.


I understand what controllers do, and in fact have played exclusively defenders and controllers for over a year now.  I remain fuzzy on how the importance of action denial makes the longbow a strictly inferior option compared to the crossbow.  (It does make the superior crossbow a much better option than the greatbow... but neither is an option here.)

I'll go ahead and make the switch, based on your feedback and a review of the level 13 class feature, but I think the difference will be negligible.

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2011 - 11:31AM #29
Seeten
Date Joined: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 526
How did this turn out?
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2011 - 12:26PM #30
LlamasNotsheep
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 907
Is there a summary of the labs results anywhere?
[20:53] [SadisticFish] yeah Llamas convinced me
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