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Switch to Forum Live View Open letter to WoTC regarding eBooks
1 year ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 8:17PM #51
eriksdb
Date Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Posts: 951
For the record, I support WotC's experiment in pushing my book as an e-book only. I was, after all, the first one to announce it and have been a tireless advocate for the book, regardless of form.

Would I have preferred not to be the guinea pig author? Sure, but it is what is, and we play with the hand we're dealt.

I do think e-publishing is the way of the future. I just think we're not quite there--particularly when a book going digital only means *fewer* people can read it, rather than more. Whether it's because you live outside the U.S., because you don't have/can't afford an e-reader, or you simply like the feel and experience of reading an actual paper book, I adamantly support you having access to the books you want to read, and it's troubling to me when my work gets in the hands of fewer readers.

I don't write for the money (which isn't much). I do it because I love telling stories and having them be read. That's my priority.

Cheers
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 8:19PM #52
Ragnarokio
Date Joined: Aug 8, 2009
Posts: 12,778
I have mixed feelings on the issue. The reasoning is pretty obvious from WotC's side and is hard to argue, but sometimes it's good to take action with these sorts of things. Google seems to do a pretty good job at that.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 8:06PM #53
Mr_Miscellany
Date Joined: Apr 5, 2007
Posts: 2,523
I'm starting to fancy some sort of subscription based thing, where you get access to each new novel that comes out (minimum one per month) in e-format for a monthly fee of some kind.
The Forgotten Realms: It's an ugly baby, but damnit it's our ugly baby.

WotC, please don't wreck the Forgotten Realms a third time in order to introduce the latest version of the D&D rules.

Give us back 3rd Edition's Magic Television concept instead.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 24, 2012 - 4:56PM #54
Tomargar
Date Joined: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 13
Well I for one was very much looking forward to reading the next chapter in the books and reading more about the character Shadowbane, if only they would put it out as paperback and kindle etc but i don't have the funds to go buy something like that.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 30, 2012 - 10:46AM #55
Caolin
Date Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Posts: 178
I haven't followed this thread in a while but I have posted an update at Candlekeep.  So I guess I should post an update here since I started the thread.  

Back in December I recieved a Kindle Fire as a gift.  I'm not the type of guy to return a gift from someone so I rolled with it and went ahead and bought the last book in the Chosen of Nendawen trilogy as an eBook.  My first realization was that buying "paperback" eBooks on Amazon was cheaper than buying the physical copies, when you factor in shipping.  Granted, I still think $6.39 is a bit much for a normal eBook.  Thye need to either increase the length of novels or include some really cool filler.  I think Erik's Shadowbane eBook was a good example.  The extra shot story and game errata made the $6.39 price feel more reasonable.  But I would still like to see the eBooks sold at around $5.  

As for the "hardcover" eBooks, I am still planning on boycotting those because there is no way you can justify $15 for an eBook that is the exact same word length as its future paperback release will be.  At this point, the higher price only buys you the exclusive right to read it now rather than 6-10 months later.  This is a bad precident to set.  This tactic will lead to piracy, which I am sure nobody wants.  Again, if you are going to sell at this price point then make it worth that price.

So my experience with the Kindle Fire and reading an eBook was pretty amazing.  The ease of purchase was nice if a bit dangerous.  Reading an eBook on the Fire was exactly the experience I've been waiting for.  Despite my love of books I have never been a hardcore bibliophile.  There are frustrating aspects of reading a hard copy book.  Using both hands, finding adequate light, taking up space.  The Kindle answered all of these concerns for me.  Other bonuses include the ability to instantly look up the defenition of a word or wiki the name of some person or place in the novel is great.  I also love the ability to quickly search novels I have read before in order to help clarify a scene in a new book.  Given the year that comes between most connected books, I can see this being very useful.  I also love the fact that I can adjust the page and font color, as well as the font type and spacing.

Now the Kindle Fire isn't perfect.  Their bookshelf is still pretty lame since you can't customize the sorting.  In the long run this will be very annoying unless they allow the user to create personal folders.  The fact that it has no wi-fi means that you have to make sure everything you want to access is on the device if you are going to be traveling.  I was hit by this while listening to an audiobook.  I went on a trip and forgot that the book was streaming off the cloud. 

So in summary, I am sold on eBooks and I will most likey stop buying print except for special cirumstances.  I will still refuse to buy products that I feel are overpriced and I implore WoTC to keep their prices reasonable.  We want to support you and the Realms so don't force us to choose not to.
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 05, 2012 - 5:17PM #56
Tomargar
Date Joined: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 13
Cool   

So if we're to be kind of pushed into buying a ebook by WotC may I ask what is the $$$ difference in producing a paperback vs a ebook because it is about a $1 difference between what the average paperback costs the fans an a ebook.


WotC maybe since your wanting to lead us (by the nose) into the ebook future  you could lower the cost of your ebook... and lead that revolution as well aye.

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 8:32AM #57
Lunarbeam
Date Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 49
I am of two schools on this for some my books I would love to see in the digital format.  I am lugging a heavy biology book and if I have kindle that had color pixels on it I would buy it.  Other than having a limit space to store stuff I it is helpful to have in e book format but I like the flipping of pages of the old fasion book.  I bought the source books in old fasion format and newer paper back books in e-book format.  Pragmatics versus desires it is a judgement call. 
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 16, 2012 - 5:34AM #58
Lunarbeam
Date Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 49
Sorry to revive a necro-topic


I am not sure this is right place to post this anyways.


I pre-order Demon Weave  but it says on Amazon that it's release date is Jan 1 2035.  I am patiant but not that patiant. Is this a mistake?     
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1 year ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 7:01AM #59
Tectorman
Date Joined: Feb 20, 2007
Posts: 946

A long rant ahead.  You've been warned...

...

So there I was, reading “The Mark of Nerath” in order to get an idea of the new setting for D&D 4E when I see at the back of the book a list of five more novels in a new “Abyssal Plague” series. 


Sounds cool.  When do they come out? 


Ah.  Very well then.  So I wait.  Months pass and then I see the first novel on the bookshelves.  Good, but I know this is part of a series and I’d rather read the entire thing in one go as opposed to starting the series, stopping for a month or two and forgetting what’s what and who’s who, and so on.  So I don’t read the book yet.  I wait for the next.


Then I see the next one on the bookshelves.  Hurray!  Two down, three to go.  Waiting, waiting, and the next one arrives.  Then the fourth.  So all I need is the fifth, this “Shadowbane” by Erik Scott de Bie, and then I’ll be able to read the Abyssal Plague.


So I wait.  It’s not out yet.  Maybe it got delayed, so I’ll be patient.  A month past its advertised release date passes and still no book.  Two months.  Three.  Did they advertise it at first and then later decide to forgo this book.  I know some 4E supplement books got delayed so maybe the same thing happened here.  I wonder what the product catalog says.


No, it says “Shadowbane” is already out.  Odd that I haven’t seen it in any of the bookstores yet.  What’s going on?  Finally, I go the extra step of looking at the bookstores’ online sites to see if I can order it (yes, “extra step”, for I did not have to do this for the other four books).  Huh?  E-book?  Nook book?  What about just the regular, printed-on-actual-physical-paper book?


What do you mean it’s only available as an E-book?  Was that in the advertisements?  What did “The Mark of Nerath” say?  It only advertises “The Temple of Yellow Skulls” (with no mention of this series coming out 80% as printed books and 20% as E-books, may I add?).  Okay, what does “Temple” say? 


Aha!  Here we have a list of all five “Abyssal Plague” series books.  Yes, this is exactly what I was following when I was on the lookout for the other four novels.  Any indication of one of them being an E-book and only an E-book?


“Find these novels at your favorite bookseller.  Also available as e-books.”  Hmm.  No, that doesn’t qualify.  “Also available as e-books” is a far cry from “If you don’t have an E-reader or a Nook, you will not be able to finish this series”.  Did the other novels mention that?  Still a bit cheap to wait until after a trusting customer has begun collecting/reading a novel series to announce that he may end up being screwed over, but any warning at all is still better than none.


“Sword of the Gods”?  No.  “Under the Crimson Sun”?  No.  “Oath of Vigilance”?  Well, we have the announcement for the third book of the main series (“The Eye of the Chained God&rdquo, which is nice, but still no warning that those of us without E-readers are forevermore doomed to enjoy four-fifths (now, five-sixths) of the main series for 4E while having the last fraction held dangling beyond our reach.


What the hell, WotC?  Who kicked whose dog that you felt it was necessary to lash out like this?  I mean, what is the logic of releasing a series of novels, of printed in paper books, only to switch gears like that? 


An experiment into the realm of E-books, to see how they sell, you say.  That’s no reason at all.  “The Last Garrison”?  A stand-alone novel.  Not part of any pre-existing series nor the start of any future series in the planning.  Read: the perfect candidate for an experiment of this nature.  A book that’s already a part of another series that was already being released in paper-form?  Not a candidate.  What’s incredible is that this actually has to be said, that it’s not common-fricking-sense.


Making the entire six-book series E-book only would have been more humane.  Sure, we non-E-readers would miss out, but at least we’re not having our seven-year-old brother sitting in the car next to us holding his finger an inch away from our shoulder declaring “I’m not touching you!  I’m not touching you!”  That’s the maturity of this decision, WotC.


Fine.  Whatever.  I’ve paid good money on the rest of these books and I don’t want that to go to waste.  So how do I get ahold of this E-book?  How do E-books work?  Does it require an Internet connection, such that someone with a home computer not connected to the Internet is SOL with Ebooks?  Can I download it from a connected computer to a USB key and then read it at home?  May I point out again that this headache did
not exist with the other four (five)?


I find out I need to pay electronically and I need to have an account with (in my case) Barnes & Noble.  Well, I’ve got the account (which I didn’t need for the others) but what does “pay electronically” mean?  Can I use a B&N gift card?


Turns out the answer is yes.  At any computer hooked up to the Internet, log in to your B&N account and you can pay via a gift card.  So I try at my earliest convenience.  I even get a little pop-up window reminding me that I’m perfectly able to use a B&N gift card to pay for Nook Books.


So why am I being sent to a screen asking me for my credit card information?  I don’t have a credit card, I have a gift card.  A gift card I would desperately love to use to pay for this book if the damn screen would only let me!  It even told me I could use a gift card so, once again, what the hell?  (By the way, this still isn’t an issue with B&N, it’s an issue with WotC.  B&N wasn’t the company who decided releasing “Shadowbane” as an E-Book only would be a good thing.)


So I go back to the store and ask what’s going on (remember that part about “my earliest convenience”?  This isn’t convenient, folks).  I’m told that even though it can be bought with a gift card, it must still have a credit card account tied to the file for security purposes.  Well and good, but what do I do?  I didn’t have to buy a credit card for the other books, so I’m not buying one for this book.


A Visa checking card will stand in.  I can find one at Wal-Mart, but I have to make sure it’s reloadable (as opposed to the Visa gift cards I use to pay for month-long DDI subscriptions here).


(Yeah, that’s right.  A Visa gift card is fine and dandy for buying one kind of thing from WotC, but is just not enough for buying another something from the same company.  Poor h4ters!  They’ve got so much misdirected vitriol aimed at WotC because of what they perceive as WotC’s game design mistakes.  Silly h4ters, it’s not the game design that your anger should be going towards.)


So okay.  Fine.  B&N rings me up at the register so that I’ve got the book on my Nook library that I can’t get to yet, but no matter, because now I’m off to get the checking card.  I go to Wal-Mart (several visits to more than one store and I have yet to read the damn book, dear WotC) and buy the card (making sure the card in question is a “checking card&rdquo


(Incidentally, the E-Book cost a little over $7.  Buying a Visa checking card costs $3 and the minimum you can put on the card is $20.  I’ve paid over four times the cost of this book and I still haven’t read the first word.  Tell me what’s wrong with this picture!)


The next time I’m at a computer able to hook up to the Internet, I enter this card as my so-called credit card.  Accepted!  Good!  Now to actually, finally download this book.


Yadda-yadda-yadda-blah-blah-blah-long-string-of-numbers-dot-epub.


What is an Epub file?  How do I open this file?  Holy crap on a cracker, what does it take to just be able to read the fricking book?!  So I go and download Firefox onto my laptop and then download the Firefox Epub Reader.  Can I read it now?  Please?!


“This file is protected by the Digital Rights Management (DRM) and unfortunately cannot be opened.”


What does this book want from me, blood?!  My first born son?!


So I go back to B&N (I could’ve bought this series twice over by now, given the number of times I’ve had to visit them for this book) with the laptop and they put something called the Nook App on my laptop and now I’m able to finally open and read the book.  Not doing it yet, of course; I’ve got to finish other book series before I start “Abyssal Plague”, and even then, “Shadowbane” was towards the end.


Nevertheless, WotC, given the headache I’ve had to go through to finally reach this point, I think I’m perfectly justified in saying that this book had better be worth it.  When I read this series, I better learn the Ultimate Question to the Ultimate Answer of Life, the Universe, and Everything.  When I get to the end of “Eye of the Chained God”, there better be swirling lights all around me as I’m lifted into the air, incoherently screaming that “I know everything!  I AM everything!”  Otherwise, just like in Highlander, heads will roll (that is, after I get a collection of Voodoo dolls and start collecting hairs).


Seriously, I’m at the point where I must actually give Paizo a shout-out at how much better they’ve performed in comparison with WotC.  Not talking about the game, here, just the simple fact that every one of their “Pathfinder Tales” novels are available as fricking books.


Yes!  You heard it here, folks.  A company releasing a book as a (say it with me, now) BOOK is worthy of praise.  One would think this would be a given, but hey, what do I know?


In fact, I have no idea how well these novels are written.  I already know that since they’re set in the humanocentric Inner Sea region of Golarion that I’m not likely to warm to them immediately.  Nevertheless, the simple fact that I didn’t have to dodge poison-tipped arrows, outrun rolling boulders, or fight off hordes of Nazis to get ahold of these books still puts them ahead.


WotC, ya’ll screwed up.

...

TLDR: WotC, ya'll screwed up. 

I've finally figured out how to put in a sig.  Yes, I'm including this here for no other reason than to express how happy I am that I could finally do this.  For goodness' sake, change these forums back (or just change, I don't care).
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13 months ago  ::  May 21, 2012 - 5:49PM #60
Destroid
Date Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 131

Aug 18, 2011 -- 11:50AM, Caolin wrote:

Aug 18, 2011 -- 10:47AM, Mr_Miscellany wrote:

Holy e-books from WotC Batman!

Did a search and found this D&D Novel eBooks archive. I had no idea WotC had a backlist of ebooks, much less one that was so extensive.

Note that e-books do not in fact save publishers "a ton of cost" relative to their up front cost to create the book. The cost to pay the author, pay the cover artist and any interior artist, to pay the editor(s)—including copyeditor and proofreader(s), marketing costs, etc...is far more.

Printing, binding and shipping product is expensive, but it amounts to (roughly) 10-20% of a given book's total production cost.

If a paper book costs, say, $5 to produce, print and ship, and if we follow the rule of doubling costs, then you're looking at a $10 retail price.

The e-book version should cost $4 (20% off of $5 is $4) to produce, with an e-book cost of $8.

As an aside, I don't know how anyone can conclude that WotC staff don't read these forums. I don't have a crystal ball that let's me see what they do and don't do at work, and I don't think anyone else does either.

EDIT: Here's a quick primer from Sean K. Reynolds (best Wizard's of the Coast game designer evar) on how sourcebooks are produced and the costs that go into them. Not exactly novels, but I think his commentary is on topic vis-a-vis this discussion.




The cost savings from print to eBook might not be a ton but it isn't insignificant either.  Let's not fool ourseves, they are definitely cheaper to make.  So why is WoTC setting the list price the same as the print media?  As Hawkins stated with his Stackpole link, most are coming to the agreement that $4.99 is about the sweet spot for eBook pricing and average length novel.  

But you also can't just look at the cost savings of the actual creation of the book.  The customer loses out on the option to resell that printed book at a used book store.  Actually, the whole concept of owning the book comes into question when it is in it's digital form.  I mean, Amazon can delete your whole catalog off of their Kindle if it suited them.  So I think it is a little unfair of WoTC (or any publisher) to ask their customers to accept less in return for the same amount of money.

Oh, and thanks for the Sean K. Reynolds link.  That was an interesting read.




That sort of **** is why I hate modern copyright in general. IMO it's just corporate power over how we share ideas and use our property and should be abolished and replaced by something like creative commons. It doesn't help that the anti-piracy crowd rely on lies, damn lies and fantastical statistics to defend it.

I'd like to see someone back up the statistic that the physical aspect of books only takes up 10-20% of publishing because I severely doubt it. It's true people are the most expensive resource, but people are involved in the physical production process as well. Please note too that paying an artist or writer is often a static cost. 

If artists are so costly than quite frankly I know a few that'd do better art for cheaper than 4e's slightly dodgy art.

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