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2 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2011 - 11:09AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Dear WoTC,
I want to first applaud the fact that you are finally venturing into the world of eBooks. I think it is a positive move that will help others around the world enjoy DnD products. But your decision to publish the up coming novel Shadowbane as an eBook only product will hurt customers of the Realms rather than help. With this decision you are preventing those who either cannot afford an eReader or have chosen not to purchase one, from having access to the novel.
I will not attempt to guess the reasons for this decision in this letter, but at first glance it does not appear to be one with the customer first in mind. I urge you to stick with publishing both print and eMedia until such time that the pricing of eMedia reaches reasonable and fair levels. I have been a loyal customer of DnD and the Realms for well over 20 years. It is a shame that I will not be able to enjoy Shadowbane due to its unavailabilty in printed form.
For my fellow customers and fans, please respond to this post with your thoughts on this topic. I feel it is an important one to all of us.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2011 - 11:11AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2010
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Dear WoTC,
I want to first applaud the fact that you are finally venturing into the world of eBooks. I think it is a positive move that will help others around the world enjoy DnD products. But your decision to publish the up coming novel Shadowbane as an eBook only product will hurt customers of the Realms rather than help. With this decision you are preventing those who either cannot afford an eReader or have chosen not to purchase one, from having access to the novel.
I will not attempt to guess the reasons for this decision in this letter, but at first glance it does not appear to be one with the customer first in mind. I urge you to stick with publishing both print and eMedia until such time that the pricing of eMedia reaches reasonable and fair levels. I have been a loyal customer of DnD and the Realms for well over 20 years. It is a shame that I will not be able to enjoy Shadowbane due to it's unavailabilty in printed form.
For my fellow customers and fans, please respond to this post with your thoughts on this topic. I feel it is an important one to all of us.
You have access to a computer? Barnes and Noble offers PC and Mac readers for its NookBooks.
www.bn.com
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2 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2011 - 11:14AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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I am objecting mostly to the price of eBooks. I see this as a move to force people into the format without having to lure them into it with competitive pricing. Besides, reading a novel sitting in front of my computer? Not a real attractive option versus reading a print novel. Why would I spend money for that?
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2 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2011 - 1:02PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2006
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Amazon’s Kindle is computer friendly too. However, I won’t read novels this way; I have used the Kindle, did not enjoy it, and got rid of it. If WotC was to publish all the existing 4E and Essentials rules and accessories this way, I might reconsider this option.
- Note: While the Compendium tool is great; it does not have everything in it, thus the books are still required.
As far as the money goes, I view it as replacing the cost of paper with the cost of the tech. Hell if Erik was to place it on his own web page I'd gladly pay him the associated fees for reading it, cutting the middlemen out of completely, but sadly this isn't the way business works.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2011 - 12:05AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2009
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Yeah, some of us prefer to read real books, as apposed to staring at a screen.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig
Off-topic and going downhill from there
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2 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2011 - 8:22AM
#6
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Hello All,
Does anyone know what is the price point is for Shadowbane?
Do we know if Shadowbane would have been published in hardback format first, with softcover format to follow later (as with Salvatore's Realms novels)? Or would it have been published as a soft cover only?
If difference between the e-version of the novel vs. a paper novel of roughly the same size and page count? One dollar? A couple dollars? Five or more dollars?
I get the impression that WotC is experimenting: they're stepping into the e-reader market with this book and looking to see how it sells.
For me: I do not own an e-reader. On average, and over the last eight months, for every 3 paper books I purchase, I purchase 1 book through Google Books. I do this so that I can read these purchases on any internet-capable computer/laptop/phone/i-pad-like device.
In my opinion Kindles, and Nooks and e-readers in general are too restrictive. I'd rather be able to use portable devices that I already own.
Factoid: where I live I see quite a few people on the commuter train carrying their cellphone and work laptops. Roughly one in ten of these people also carry an e-reader.
Does anyone know if Shadowbane will be available through Google Books?
The Forgotten Realms: It's an ugly baby, but damnit it's our ugly baby.
WotC, please don't wreck the Forgotten Realms a third time in order to introduce the latest version of the D&D rules.
Give us back 3rd Edition's Magic Television concept instead.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2011 - 9:00AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2007
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ATTN: James Wyatt & Mike Mearls I am here because upon Erik Scott deBie's announcing on the Candlekeep Forums that Shadowbane was only receiving a e-book release, I mentioned a number of concerns I have about this. Erik then sent me a message saying that I should repost my concerns here. I encourage you to read the thread in its entirety, but here are the posts that I think are relevant to what Erik wanted me to convey: My original post: Originally posted by Hawkins
[br]I think my biggest problem with the e-book format is also price. I follow Micheal A. Stackpole on both the RSS feed for his blog and Twitter, and from his extensive research the sweet spot for e-books seems to be $5 USD. This is what I personally am willing to pay for an e-book over the pleasure of holding a print copy in my hand (in which case I am willing to pay $8-10). And I think that many readers are in this boat. Until big publishers realize this, I do not think that e-books produced by big publishers will do nearly as well as they would like them to. My other problem is trying to find an eReader that I can afford (this is where Stackpole and I disagree). He seems to be pushing his readers to go all-digital by speaking of how cutting out the costs of a few hardcovers a year would make up the cost of an eReader. The thing is, all I want a eReader for is those books that I cannot buy in any other format. Therefore, since I will still buy the 2-3 hardcovers and who-knows-how-many paperbacks a year, I still do not have extra cash for the initial purchase of an eReader. (Especially with a baby due in a month and a half. I love my future spawn, but babies do to money what rust monsters do to iron weapons.)
Richard Lee Byers' response:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Hawkins: You don't have to buy an eReader to partake of eBooks. Download the free Kindle app, the free Nook app, or both and you're good to go.
And my response to Richard Lee Byers:
Originally posted by Hawkins
Lol. That is assuming I can afford an expensive phone . And I have tried reading eBooks on a laptop and computer screen, and it just gives me a headache. So, as before, for me it is the start-up cost that is prohibitive.
I also suggest you read Micheal A. Stackpole's blog posts on the subject of e-publishing. Much of it is about self-publishing, but I think that much of it applies to traditional publishing companies just now trying to get in the e-book game as well.
Thank you for your time,
Tim "Hawkins" Wallace
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2 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2011 - 10:47AM
#8
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Holy e-books from WotC Batman! Did a search and found this D&D Novel eBooks archive. I had no idea WotC had a backlist of ebooks, much less one that was so extensive. Note that e-books do not in fact save publishers "a ton of cost" relative to their up front cost to create the book. The cost to pay the author, pay the cover artist and any interior artist, to pay the editor(s)—including copyeditor and proofreader(s), marketing costs, etc...is far more. Printing, binding and shipping product is expensive, but it amounts to (roughly) 10-20% of a given book's total production cost. If a paper book costs, say, $5 to produce, print and ship, and if we follow the rule of doubling costs, then you're looking at a $10 retail price. The e-book version should cost $4 (20% off of $5 is $4) to produce, with an e-book cost of $8. As an aside, I don't know how anyone can conclude that WotC staff don't read these forums. I don't have a crystal ball that let's me see what they do and don't do at work, and I don't think anyone else does either. EDIT: Here's a quick primer from Sean K. Reynolds (best Wizard's of the Coast game designer evar) on how sourcebooks are produced and the costs that go into them. Not exactly novels, but I think his commentary is on topic vis-a-vis this discussion.
The Forgotten Realms: It's an ugly baby, but damnit it's our ugly baby.
WotC, please don't wreck the Forgotten Realms a third time in order to introduce the latest version of the D&D rules.
Give us back 3rd Edition's Magic Television concept instead.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2011 - 11:50AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Holy e-books from WotC Batman!
Did a search and found this D&D Novel eBooks archive. I had no idea WotC had a backlist of ebooks, much less one that was so extensive.
Note that e-books do not in fact save publishers "a ton of cost" relative to their up front cost to create the book. The cost to pay the author, pay the cover artist and any interior artist, to pay the editor(s)—including copyeditor and proofreader(s), marketing costs, etc...is far more.
Printing, binding and shipping product is expensive, but it amounts to (roughly) 10-20% of a given book's total production cost.
If a paper book costs, say, $5 to produce, print and ship, and if we follow the rule of doubling costs, then you're looking at a $10 retail price.
The e-book version should cost $4 (20% off of $5 is $4) to produce, with an e-book cost of $8.
As an aside, I don't know how anyone can conclude that WotC staff don't read these forums. I don't have a crystal ball that let's me see what they do and don't do at work, and I don't think anyone else does either.
EDIT: Here's a quick primer from Sean K. Reynolds (best Wizard's of the Coast game designer evar) on how sourcebooks are produced and the costs that go into them. Not exactly novels, but I think his commentary is on topic vis-a-vis this discussion.
The cost savings from print to eBook might not be a ton but it isn't insignificant either. Let's not fool ourseves, they are definitely cheaper to make. So why is WoTC setting the list price the same as the print media? As Hawkins stated with his Stackpole link, most are coming to the agreement that $4.99 is about the sweet spot for eBook pricing and average length novel.
But you also can't just look at the cost savings of the actual creation of the book. The customer loses out on the option to resell that printed book at a used book store. Actually, the whole concept of owning the book comes into question when it is in it's digital form. I mean, Amazon can delete your whole catalog off of their Kindle if it suited them. So I think it is a little unfair of WoTC (or any publisher) to ask their customers to accept less in return for the same amount of money.
Oh, and thanks for the Sean K. Reynolds link. That was an interesting read.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2011 - 1:17PM
#10
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The cost savings from print to eBook might not be a ton but it isn't insignificant either. Let's not fool ourseves, they are definitely cheaper to make. So why is WoTC setting the list price the same as the print media?
Are they?
Softcover print books, such as Elminster in Hell and Elminster's Daughter, sell for $8 retail, as well as $8 on Amazon.com.
Shadowbane, a comparable book in the same softcover format, due in e-book format only, is on sale at Amazon.com for $6.39. Retail is $8, but since the book is in e-format only, it's effectively $6.39.
Whether Amazon sells at a discount or for full retail, they still pay WotC the same (35% to 70% of the retail price, depending on the deal WotC worked out with Amazon).
The decision to sell at the cheaper price wasn't WotC's, it was Amazon's.
Note: B&N has it at 6.99, with no mention as to whether this is a sale price or online retail price.
Oh, and thanks for the Sean K. Reynolds link. That was an interesting read.
You're welcome!
Note sure if the parallel candlekeep.com discussion has been linked to yet, so here's a link just in case. Scroll down in that thread for another useful cost breakdown on what it costs to make a paperback book.
edit: Hawkinsthedm did link to the Candlekeep.com discussion, so now there's two links. 
The Forgotten Realms: It's an ugly baby, but damnit it's our ugly baby.
WotC, please don't wreck the Forgotten Realms a third time in order to introduce the latest version of the D&D rules.
Give us back 3rd Edition's Magic Television concept instead.
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