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Switch to Forum Live View Scry and Die, killing from rooms away.
2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 1:15PM #1
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,506

Thanks poyodiablo for the pic.


Generall Strategy.

1) Tell your party that you'll scout ahead, while you roll a stealth check (don't go in).
2) Free: Summon your spirit 20 squares ahead.
3) Move: Send your spirit 11 squares into the next room(s).  *
4) Standard: Attack anyone your spirit can see and remain hidden.
5) Make a Bluff check to avoid laughing to loud while monsters scramble to find the source of the damage.
6) Repeat 3-5 times (till you run out of rogue encounter powers)
7) Send allies charging in with Spirit of the Ram, use glaoming cut, or take a short rest.

*Yes, the spirit will end because it's out of range, but only at the end of the turn, which gives us enough time to attack from it.

Trojan Horse Strategy (thanks to monkey gentlemen)

1) Get in a box  like this...
___
|    |
|g|

3) Have an ally who took training in basket weaving make it very pretty (perhps make it look like a seashell)
4) Have an ally who's trained in bluff give the box as a gift.*
5) Kill things, while staying safe in the box.
6) If they look in the box, chamelion and hide in plane sight will keep you safe.

* Assistance of the Strong Spirit could carry the box.

Scry and Die Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Scry and Die, level 30
Gnome, Shaman/Rogue, Keen Eagle, Cosmic Soul
Companion Spirit (Hybrid) Option: Watcher Spirit (Hybrid)
Hybrid Shaman Option: Hybrid Shaman Fortitude
Hybrid Talent Option: Rogue Combat Talent
Rogue Combat Talent Option: Rogue Weapon Talent (Hybrid)
Arcane Agent (+2 to Stealth)
Theme: Seer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 13, DEX 28, INT 14, WIS 22, CHA 10

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 11, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 8


AC: 43 Fort: 33 Ref: 42 Will: 36
HP: 170 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 42

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +31, Athletics +21, Insight +28, Perception +31, Stealth +47, Thievery +29

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +19, Bluff +17, Diplomacy +15, Dungeoneering +21, Endurance +16, Heal +21, History +17, Intimidate +15, Nature +21, Religion +17, Streetwise +15

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Seer Utility: Cast Fortune
Gnome Racial Power: Fade Away
Wizard Utility: Ghost Sound
Shaman Feature: Call Spirit Companion
Shaman Feature: Healing Spirit
Shaman Feature: Speak with Spirits
Monk Feature: Centered Flurry of Blows
Rogue Attack 1: Gloaming Cut
Shaman Attack 1: Wrath of Winter
Rogue Utility 2: Fleeting Ghost
Rogue Attack 3: Shadow Steel Roll
Shaman Utility 6: Sudden Restoration
Rogue Utility 6: Chameleon
Keen Eagle Attack 11: Winged Spirit Strike
Keen Eagle Utility 12: Hunting Eagle
Rogue Attack 13: Fitting Demise
Rogue Utility 16: Hide in Plain Sight
Keen Eagle Attack 20: Flurry of Spirit Talons
Shaman Utility 22: Natural Rebirth
Shaman Attack 23: Spirit of the Ram
Cosmic Soul Utility 26: Merge with the Cosmos
Rogue Attack 27: Perfect Sniper

FEATS
Level 1: Monastic Disciple
Level 2: Fading Spirit
Level 4: Spirits of Stealth
Level 6: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 8: Light Blade Expertise
Level 10: Fluid Motion
Level 11: Nimble Spirit
Level 12: Mobile Spirit
Level 14: Shadow Skulk
Level 16: Backstabber
Level 18: Midnight Blade Student
Level 20: Hybrid Talent
Level 21: Untraceable
Level 22: Nimble Blade
Level 24: Skill Focus (Stealth)
Level 26: Epic Resurgence
Level 28: Reserve Maneuver
Level 30: Weapon Focus (Light blade)

ITEMS
Shadow Master Ki Focus +6 x1
Lightstep Slippers (epic tier) x1
Dagger x1
Shadowflow Mantle Armor +6 x1
Shadow Band (epic tier) x1
Assassin's Cloak +5 x1
Girdle of the Umber Hulk (epic tier) x1
Lenses of the Luminary (epic tier) x1
Serpentine Bracers (paragon tier) x1
Shadowdancer's Gloves (paragon tier) x1
====== End ======


Key components:
Keen Eagle PP:  Let's us use ranged attacks though the spirit.
High Stealth: Let's us hide, so they won't know where it comes from.
Rogue Powers: Let's us remain hidden.   After which, we'll re-hide.
Fading Spirit: Let's the spirit remain hidden, so they REALLY don't know where it comes from.

The rest is spirit movement, more stealth, and damage.  The ED just let's us be rediculous with ranged sight, but could be swaped for something else, such as thief of legends.

Oh, and you act as a backup healer.
guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 1:20PM #2
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,506
Hit on a 4 (2 for the at-will) Show

9 Dex
15 lvl
3 Prof
6 Enh
3 Feat
1 Rogue
2 CA
1 Nimble Blade
=40 vs Ref.  Hit on a 2 (.95)  Encounter powers target AC and thus hit on a 4.


 Damage 64 Show

2.5 dagger
3.5 Shadow Dancer
4.5 Serpintine
9 Dex
6 Enh
3 Expertise
10 Shadow Master
3 Focus
22.5 sneak attack
3.5 (+7 vs bloodied).
= 64


Crits: +2.6 Show

1.5 dagger
17.5 sneak attack
2.5 Shadow dancer
3.5 Serpintine
27 crit dice
= 52 *.05 = 2.6


DPR = 64*.95 + 2.6
63.4

Encounter "Nova": 
63.4 * 4 attacks = 253.6
(Assuming you can successfully pre-attack.  You got nothing if your ambushed).

With the untraceable, i've got an effective 52 stealth (roll twice) vs Vecna's 34 perception so...

Stealth math Show

(.05 * .05) *.5 = 0.000125 +
(.05 *.05) *.10 = 0.00025 +
(.05 *.05) & .15 = 0.000375
= 0.00075

.075% chance of being seen by vecna.
guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 1:30PM #3
Mand12
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 17,070
What are you using to maintain hidden when you hit?  I see Shadow Skulk for the misses, but what about the hits?

Edit:  Ah, it's in the attack powers. 

Nice way of getting around both the 20 square range limit and the line of effect requirement for the SC, by just letting it end every turn.
D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 3:39PM #4
monkeygentleman
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2011
Posts: 1,391
I still think this build would work perfectly as a gnome-in-a-box. Very clever, solved the rules issues with the SC, good DPR, absolutely zero risk. I love it.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 4:04PM #5
curiousdragon
Date Joined: Jan 7, 2010
Posts: 1,154
So if you can attack anyone your spirit companion can see....you could sit on top of a mountain overlooking a city (or some other area with mass creatures) and just snipe people until your heart's content

Range infinite is pretty good... 
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 4:38PM #6
Dielzen
Date Joined: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1,505
This build needs a "for dummies" section, cause I'm super lost

  1. You have bow mastery, yet I don't see a bow in your item list
  2. You're attacking out of your spirit companion with a rogue power (apparently, since you're backstabbing?)
  3. I have no idea what math you're using for DPR calcs


It's well known that I have LSM, but it's generally helpful when posting builds with names to explain them, or at least say what pieces allow you to break certain normal rules.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 4:50PM #7
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,506

Aug 10, 2011 -- 4:38PM, Dielzen wrote:

This build needs a "for dummies" section, cause I'm super lost

  1. You have bow mastery, yet I don't see a bow in your item list
  2. You're attacking out of your spirit companion with a rogue power (apparently, since you're backstabbing?)
  3. I have no idea what math you're using for DPR calcs


It's well known that I have LSM, but it's generally helpful when posting builds with names to explain them, or at least say what pieces allow you to break certain normal rules.


1) Drep..  Yea, no reason for bow master.  I was considering going x-bow, but eventually decided on dagger.

2) Yes.  The PP let's you use range/area powers from your spirit, and the ED gives you range sight.

3) Standard math... Damage * attack %

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 4:51PM #8
Dielzen
Date Joined: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1,505
oh, I've figured out the math, I think -- instead of doing the whole hit at 10% you're just doing the gain. In that case you want the full 56 (not 95% of it, and I have no idea how you went from 56 to 59.5 for the base DPR) and 10% of the gain, which comes out to 60.6, the same number you get if you do it the longer way.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 4:52PM #9
Dielzen
Date Joined: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1,505

Aug 10, 2011 -- 4:50PM, mellored wrote:

2) Yes.  The PP let's you use range/area powers from your spirit, and the ED gives you range sight.



What gets around the requirement of hybrid rogue to only get SA with Rogue powers?


Aug 10, 2011 -- 4:50PM, mellored wrote:

3) Standard math... Damage * attack %



Yea, you should prolly double check your numbers before giving that sort of reply.

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2011 - 4:53PM #10
Mand12
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 17,070
Nothing, but the PP feature is not restricted to Shaman powers.
D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition
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