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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 4:19AM
#111
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You guys are totally missing the point.
There isn't even an community right now, and those that consider themselves part of what community there is, are already talking about reasons to ban people from their table.
At the same time, complaining about there isn't enough people in the beta and they need to invite more. Because with 10,000+ people in the beta, it's not enough.
Take those to facts and come to your own conclusion.
If no one wants to play in your sandbox a second time, you can blame them, or you can try and find out why and fix the problem.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 5:04AM
#112
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2007
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You guys are totally missing the point.
There isn't even an community right now, and those that consider themselves part of what community there is, are already talking about reasons to ban people from their table.
At the same time, complaining about there isn't enough people in the beta and they need to invite more. Because with 10,000+ people in the beta, it's not enough.
Take those to facts and come to your own conclusion.
Whether or not you realize it you are advocating that signing up for a game and not showing up and not notifying anyone that you cannot make it are both acceptable behaviors and that there should be no consequences for that individuals bad behavior. You have also assumed that anyone that doesn't show up missed the game for a legitimate reason. No consideration has been given to malicious people who sign up with no intention of participating.
Your entire attitude smacks of "I can do whatever I want and I don't care how much I screw someone over, they don't have the right to do anything about it". Is this really the position you want to be advocating?
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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 5:05AM
#113
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You guys are totally missing the point.
There isn't even an community right now, and those that consider themselves part of what community there is, are already talking about reasons to ban people from their table.
At the same time, complaining about there isn't enough people in the beta and they need to invite more. Because with 10,000+ people in the beta, it's not enough.
Take those to facts and come to your own conclusion.
No one is missing the point. You are trying to take two unrelated things and mash them together into one thing.
Everyone has already said that there should be more beta invites. But population has absolutely nothing to do with individuals not showing up to their committed times, bad behavior at the table, or showing up to the game unprepared to play.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 6:10AM
#114
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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The Community is there and its big. 10,000+ members is a large Community. But only a small minority participate actively in the BETA. Having more Invites sent means more people can get in and thus increase the number of active participants. And every round of invite both bring a sudden boom of activity initially before some people turn away and also increase the number of steady participants that stay. It won't get worse, but easier over time as it will contribute to mitigate the problem of No Shows, since it becomes easier to find replacement if more active member participate in the BETA..
There's so many uninterested people in and so many interested people out.
If we could just swap a quarter of them for those, the BETA would be a lot more busy.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 9:33AM
#115
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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The Community is there and its big. 10,000+ members is a large Community. But only a small minority participate actively in the BETA. Having more Invites sent means more people can get in and thus increase the number of active participants. And every round of invite both bring a sudden boom of activity initially before some people turn away and also increase the number of steady participants that stay. It won't get worse, but easier over time as it will contribute to mitigate the problem of No Shows, since it becomes easier to find replacement if more active member participate in the BETA..
There's so many uninterested people in and so many interested people out.
If we could just swap a quarter of them for those, the BETA would be a lot more busy.
Unless part of the problem is the actual product. If a large number of people are not participating, one thing it could be is that the product is not worth it to them. There is no guarantee that inviting 10,000 more people would not just get a small incremental in participating people.
However, that small incremental would increase the active members by a small margin.
Now I do not claim to know the quality of the product, I looked at it very early on and was not that impressed, things could be different now though.
WOTC Podcast:
"The web is a shortcut"
"Piracy was a big thing"
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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 9:48AM
#116
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As with everything, the novelty wears off.
Until DDI takes more steps to accomodate the community aspect of the VT and focus on the longevity (campaign support, potential DM rewards, consistent stream of new content, to name a few examples) of the VT, then numbers will dwindle after any influx in participants.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 10:11AM
#117
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Or perhaps the number of people who find utility in any VT is actually very small. I was invited to beta the VT, but I have no use for it to run games whatsoever. My group meets face-to-face every other weekend. We don't need a VT. Now if the VT also allowed for making maps that could be printed, or designing advenures that could be exported or printed, then I would use the program as that is something I can use.
Kalex the Omen Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire Concerning Player Rules Bias
Show
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 10:33AM
#118
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It could also stand to reason that a lot of people that need the VT are currently non-subscribers. I.e. the only way they can find a group is online. However, these people may not be ready to subscribe to DDI to partake in a beta product, particularly one where they have to wait to get an invite to the beta.
Bottom line, there are countless reasons why people are not sitting down and partaking in a VT session currently, none of which are some fabricated "elitist clique" reason.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 11:01AM
#119
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I played a lot on the VT after the second wave of invites, but I left when you had to pay for a DDI sub to keep on playing. Recently I've been hoping that they'll soon leave the beta stage so anyone with a DDI sub can play. My feeling is that if they have ironed out the wrinkles in the tabletop, I might be willing to pay for it. So I came here to check out how things were going, but this debate isn't exactly encouraging...
Regarding what Jharii and Kenjoon are talking about: you are free to ban/kick whomever you like from your table, aren't you?
If things have become so bad that you would actually need some way of flagging players that you consider to be irresponsible or abusive then the situation has deteriorated a lot since I stopped playing. Sure, sometimes people were a bit late or had to leave early. Some people had annoying habits that kept popping up now and again. Perhaps even I had some too!
But I never felt the need to report anyone or brand them as "bad players" or anything like that. At the end of the day, people will be people.
I see a lot of problems with a player moderated system where you report other players. A lot of turmoil, trolling etc. You could for example start to defame someone just because you don't like them (for whatever reason!)
I know some players in the VT beta are rather pessimistic by nature. But usually advertising your game in the forum worked just fine, and then just send out invites worked fine for me. So why have open games if you don't want to run the risk of running into someone you don't like?
I mean, in the long run there is NO way of avoiding running into people you don't like - at least not in a situation like an open VT table. Or...?
Regarding what Dane is saying - I don't understand why anyone would feel a need to speak out against people using the VT anyway they want. Only with their friends or with everybody and anyone... What does it matter?
Anyway I hope things aren't as bad as the impression I get from this discussion...
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2 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2011 - 12:02PM
#120
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Anyway I hope things aren't as bad as the impression I get from this discussion...
They're not, from what I have seen. Some people are blowing it way out of proportion to try to prove a point. DM's would not go around alienating other people, particularly when it can be difficult to fill a table. People tend to alienate themselves with bad behavior (this is true in life in general, not just at the VT).
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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