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2 years ago ::
Jul 30, 2011 - 10:09AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2005
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why give the minions hp at just give them a power that helps them avoid death, like the first time they are hit by a ranged attack in an encounter they take no damage and are considered bloodied, or when reduced to 0 hp they regain 1 hp at the start of their next turn (zombies)
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2 years ago ::
Jul 30, 2011 - 1:01PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
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I call this the "two-hit minion".
This is just about the only suggestion that I've seen that I am willing to incorporate. I like the simplicity of minions. Anything that makes them more effective needs to remain just as simple.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 30, 2011 - 5:41PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2006
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I've done minions with a damage threshold of 10+1/2 level. If damage from an attack equals or exceeds the threshold then the minion dies. If not then it is bloodied. Any damage to a bloodied minion kills it.
I hadn't thought about doing the wounded instead of bloodied thing. But it wasn't an issue. I thought it worked fine.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 30, 2011 - 10:09PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2009
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You know, I was thinking of a sort of a monster that is halfway between minion and standard. It'd have half the hp of a standard monster and on hits of a 16 or greater, the player does maximum damage (critical hits as normal). It'd do a little bit lower than standard monster damage.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 31, 2011 - 2:45AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Mar 13, 2010
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One of the many, many awesome things in the Threats to the Nentir Vale book that came out very recently was a set of minions who had Resist 10 all. It's simple, effective, and annoying as *hell* when your character is designed to do a little damage to a lot of targets (Storm Warden). Be prepared for your players to be frustrated with the changes you make, if any. Not everyone will -- but I sure was.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 31, 2011 - 3:10AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2009
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I call this the "two-hit minion".
This is just about the only suggestion that I've seen that I am willing to incorporate. I like the simplicity of minions. Anything that makes them more effective needs to remain just as simple.
I use a lot of minions (often 10 to 20 at a time) and I agree that simplicity is the key to making them work. Anything that slows down the table sucks away fun so you need to avoid damage rolls, tracking HP or status effects whenever possible. Flipping the tokens over to bloodied is fast and requires no real thought from the DM. The players simply call out their power, roll attack and describe its effects if necessary. There are only three possible results: miss, bloodied or dead.
RAW, minions worked because they required almost no bookeeping by the DM. However you toughen them up, that system needs to be maintained.
If you are looking for additional ways to make minions more threatening you could try some of the following:
- minion spawn points. I like open doorways, holes in the floor, warp fields, etc. The minions spawn in on their initiative and I roll a die to determine how many come in (d6 or d8 works best). I'll use different spawn points and roll to see which one gets used each round. This keeps the PC's guessing and really ramps up the threat because they can't ignore any of the spawn points.
- minion waves that try to accomplish a task. At fixed or random intervals, waves of minions appear whose main job is not to fight the PC's (although they can) but to accomplish some sort of task (ex. open the drawbridge, blow up a door, cut the mooring rope, etc.) The PC's have to devote resources to the minions or they risk losing the objective.
- minion summoners. One of the monsters, usually not the main threat, has a rechargable power that allows it summon a large swarm of minions. PC's pick up on this quickly and have to focus on the summoner or risk being overwhelmed. This interfere's with the PC's ability to focus fire on the main threat (ex. a big "solo" boss)
- minions as movable terrain or movable effects/traps. I made up some modron minions that blocked line of sight and effect. They could join together to form walls or seal off corridors. I also used minions as movable magical effects. Example, each minion was a portal for the big boss to jump through. The minions could move to reposition around the battlefield. If the PC's didn't like where the minion was positioned they could kill it, but it would immediately respawn at the edge of the edge of the battle.
There's lots of other things you can try with minions to make them interesting. Sadly, most of the official WotC adventures use minions in a very uninspired way and they are very unthreatening. Try the two-hit minion I proposed and maybe some of the ideas above and you'll find them a lot more fun.
The key is to keep them simple.
Want to know more about the history of D&D, especially how to play older editions of the game? Check out Crazy Monkey's "Tour through the editions":
http://community.wizards.com/crazymonkey/go/forum/view/133793/225799/Asylum_Play-by-Post
The current edition is BECMI, the most popular form of Basic D&D and the adventure is the classic Red Box quest to kill Bargle the evil magic user. Check it out, learn about the games roots, and enjoy the story as it unfolds.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 31, 2011 - 4:22AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
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Style75, although I have seen all of your ideas at other times in other places, I have never seen them all in one place. I like it! A lot! And am appreciative! 
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 31, 2011 - 4:36AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2007
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I've tried "elite minions" - first hit bloodies, second hit kills, and they get a save against auto damage (to ignore that round). Keeps them around a little longer.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 31, 2011 - 3:38PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2007
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One of the many, many awesome things in the Threats to the Nentir Vale book that came out very recently was a set of minions who had Resist 10 all. It's simple, effective, and annoying as *hell* when your character is designed to do a little damage to a lot of targets (Storm Warden). Be prepared for your players to be frustrated with the changes you make, if any. Not everyone will -- but I sure was.
A static 10 isn't a good idea.
Anyway, as you point out, this can be very annoying to low damage classes (i.e. controllers) who suddenly can't sweep minions with at-wills. But strikers like sorcerers can, and pretty much any class using encounter AE powers can.
The solution is really to just use a few more lower level monsters. Minions have always been a worse trap choice for a DM in 4E than Careful Attack for a Ranger. Nothing about them is good and it's pretty much impossible to properly fix.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman
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2 years ago ::
Jul 31, 2011 - 9:26PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2007
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I've thought about using bunch of monsters at level -5 or something, but then you have to track all their HP, which can be a pain, and they'll probably last a bit longer than you really want, since everything has so much HP in 4e.
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