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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 11:19AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2007
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Expertise and defense feats aside (because it's been debated to death), what feats do you feel are taxes for certain classes to make up for an oversight in design? For example, I know that many consider Intelligent Blademaster to be a feat tax for swordmages.
I think such a list (subject to opinions, of course) would be useful for DMs who want to hand out bonus feats to underpowered or ill-designed classes.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 11:36AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2004
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None - although I understand why Melee Training could make the list.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 11:39AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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Expertise
Improved Defenses
Melee Training or Equiv for the Avenger, Battlemind, Swordmage, Chaladin, and a few builds of other classes.
The assassin "move shrouds on target death" feat.
That's about it. I try to avoid putting good feats in the feat-tax category, so "Painful Oath" doesn't qualify in my mind.
(In my home game, I give out Versatile Expertise, pre-nerf melee training to classes with multiple melee attack powers (stat must match stat of qualifying powers), and the assassing move-shroud one. That's it. I also lower the feat cost for heavy armor by one, because that helps patch some class AC issues while not being too generous)
By "the math", Armor specialization qualifies, the one-bad-nad situation, and there's also an initiative slip that's of interest. But IMHO you shouldn't fix every slip out there. After all, the PC has feats to spend. Letting a few numbers slip a few points opens up the ability to get a few other numbers a few points above the baseline. That's kinda the point of the feat system. (again, IMHO)
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 11:59AM
#4
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Depending on how much your DM scales encounters to challenge optimized characters...you may need additional surges to keep up the pace.
Surges/day are another factor in the big scheme of things but often get overlooked because they don't impact a single encounter as much.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 12:02PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 26, 2007
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I'd list Arcane Implement Proficiency or any other implement proficiency grating feat for Bards Warlocks and Artificers (crossbow caster for ranged artificers) or basicly any class that is expected to use a mix of weapons and implements or is a caster that doesn't get staves as an implement.
Also Versatile Master is all but required for a half elf as that one feat singlehandedly took them from being the worst race in the PHB to the top three. Hell our group has started giving it out for free at level one because we noticed no one was willing to play a half elf unless we were already starting at paragon level.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 1:05PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2008
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Mighty Challenge (or Blessed Strength for Half-Orcs) for Straladins definitely qualifies. They're just plain not a defender without it.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 1:19PM
#7
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To me the only Feat Taxes I'm really willing to consider are math fixes. We know the scaling is "wrong", we know these are there just to fix it. That's the only reason I see to hand out free feats to cover it.
Things your character needs to fill certain design gaps don't really qualify imo ~ and you've got enough to cover it.
I give out Versatile Expertise and Improved Defenses at level 5. If you want the benefits from the new and actually good Expertises then ya gotta pay for it ~ but the free versatile means at least you don't have to pay for multiple weapons/implements.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 1:37PM
#8
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To me the only Feat Taxes I'm really willing to consider are math fixes.
That's pretty much the definition of "tax" your DM should go with. Expertise is a tax, especially for classes that don't get baked-in accuracy (i.e., leader class). Defenses is a tax because you don't want your defender or anyone else who takes hits getting hit on 4s at later levels. They are both nice at lower levels, but taxes at higher levels.
I consider a good MBA for a defender to be a "math" fix because part of the defender job is reacting to and punishing enemy tactics, and the numbers just don't add up right for some defenders to be able to actually punish something with their OAs.
Mighty Challenge is a good one to point out. Again, that's a pure numbers issue on their punishment - no enemy will be scared of taking 3 damage.
I honestly can't think of anything else atm.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 1:46PM
#9
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The thing about Melee Training: I don't really feel it's there to fix math.
It seems clear to me they designed the Battlemind to have lots and lots of defendery methods for dealing with things without "needing" one exactly. Do I think they succeeded with the design... no not fully. Would I ever play a BM w/o Melee Training? Heck no! But I wouldn't play a rogue without it either.
I think I might be generous enough to give Mighty Challenge though if someone asked.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2011 - 1:47PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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Any feat that results in a character functioning the way that they should have been able to function to begin with is considered a feat tax in my book.
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