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2 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2011 - 1:24PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Remaai
EDIT: Ok I've been looking at the lore, and much of the Sahuagins' agressive, evil behavior stems from hunger, envy, and ignorance. Their patron divinity demands constant sacrifice, they themselves are highly adapted to be predators and are likely to be metabolically hyperactive, and to compensate they've evolved a hunting/raiding style culture that emphasizes taking from others instead of building something yourself.
That blood hunger ability indicates the possibilty of an overwhelming instict to slaughter wounded or otherwise disabled prey, I.e. non-sahuagins, and possibly even those on occasion.
Your looking at a race with a built in berserk button.
Conversely they have a strict social order complete with gender roles, royalty, and an organized priesthood.
They understand trade, craftsmanship, and agriculture, but don't have time to master them thanks to the incessant demands of both biology and religion.
Ok then as far as features the aquatic, lowlight, and blood hunger stay, probably even the swim speed. We need to add at least 1 more good feature and a racial power.
As far as racial powers go I would suggest one that plays off the blood hunger, in response to an enemy becoming bloodied they can make an immediate at-will attack.
The feature is harder, what if we give them a super sharp sense of smell that helps them sus out hidden targets? or the ability tio use their tails to let them stand as a free action?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 02, 2012 - 3:52PM
#22
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SahuaginAverage Height: 5'9" - 7'3"
Average Weight: 180-360 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Str, +2 Dex or Con
Size: Medium
Speed: 6, swim 6
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, Abyssal
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate
Aquatic: You gain the aquatic keyword. You can breath underwater. In aquatic combat, you gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls against non-aquatic creatures.
Blood Frenzy: You gain a +1 bonus to attack and a +2 bonus to damage against bloodied enemies (+4 at epic).
Sahuagin Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with tridents.
Changed things slightly, but essentially I think the race is solid.
Remaai
EDIT: Ok I've been looking at the lore, and much of the Sahuagins' agressive, evil behavior stems from hunger, envy, and ignorance. Their patron divinity demands constant sacrifice, they themselves are highly adapted to be predators and are likely to be metabolically hyperactive, and to compensate they've evolved a hunting/raiding style culture that emphasizes taking from others instead of building something yourself.
That blood hunger ability indicates the possibilty of an overwhelming instict to slaughter wounded or otherwise disabled prey, I.e. non-sahuagins, and possibly even those on occasion.
Your looking at a race with a built in berserk button.
Conversely they have a strict social order complete with gender roles, royalty, and an organized priesthood.
They understand trade, craftsmanship, and agriculture, but don't have time to master them thanks to the incessant demands of both biology and religion.
Ok then as far as features the aquatic, lowlight, and blood hunger stay, probably even the swim speed. We need to add at least 1 more good feature and a racial power.
As far as racial powers go I would suggest one that plays off the blood hunger, in response to an enemy becoming bloodied they can make an immediate at-will attack.
The feature is harder, what if we give them a super sharp sense of smell that helps them sus out hidden targets? or the ability tio use their tails to let them stand as a free action?
I'm concerned that adding anything else would be too much. Maybe one thing.
The thing is, while yeah a lot of the pics show Sahuagin with tridents, when you're playing a PC of a race you gotta accept the fact that the entirety of the race isn't just what's depicted in pictures. Which means that yeah, plenty of Sahuagin might use tridents but their entire race isn't born with the instinctive knowledge to use a trident. I mean I just can't see a baby Sahuagin grab a baby trident and start twirling it around expertly. It's a learned thing, they train in it. Which means by default that there are Sahuagin who didn't go through that training, sought other avenues.
That's why we're saying the weapon proficiency would be better spent on a unique racial feature. And why I said it made more sense as a feat.
I know everyone hates the weapon proficiency, but I really think it is an important part of the race. And the canon sahuagin race is pretty much all raiding, from the time they can pick up a trident. The proficiency is not an inherent thing, it's supposed to reflect the culture of the race.
Do Sahuagin in your games differ at all from their MMx entries or is your guy a dri'zzt?
So it's not perfect, but to work my character into the party, we homebrewed "Deep-sea Sahuagin," sahuagin that live far out in the ocean and have little to no contact with any other races, including other sahuagin.there. They hunt stuff that's underwater, and don't come to the surface, etc. My character's has to be disguised as a dragonborn whenever we're near coastal areas, as the natives will try to kill him.
I've been playing him from 1-10, and he seems pretty balanced. I don't feel like I'm lacking anything during gameplay, and I'm pretty happy with how he's working out. I'm not even using the trident: I retrained into Great Weapon Fighter with a greatspear, and the DM is letting me roleplay it as a "great trident."
Speed: 6, swim 6
Aquatic: You gain the aquatic keyword.
This is taking up a lot of design space that just isn't going to get used during most campaigns, and that's the major problem with trying to make primarily aquatic races. You have to make sure that the race is still balanced in campaigns that make heavy use of these features while also making sure that the race isn't woefully underpowered in campaigns where it never comes up at all.
As far as aquatic goes, it's been pretty useful, actually. It's come in handy numerous occasions, although that could be becuase of the DM giving me something to do with my aquatic trait.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 02, 2012 - 6:53PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Monsters don't have listed feats anymore, just assume that all the presented monsters have the damned weapon training feat. Otherwise it's a non-ability because any class that can use the trident has better options, and the classes that aren't auto-prof don't want one, the weapon training feat makes the trident attractive to sahaguin players as opposed to simply being there.
As for the over-all power level being satisfactory for you: you're too biased. They're grossly underpowered, and anyone who isn't a sahaguin fanfish will probably dismiss them. When forging a race you gotta balance the abilities based on a nuetral observer who doesn't like or dislike a race based on anything but mechanics.
Also have you considered cha instead of con for the branch score, I mean sahaguin are scary as all hell.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 02, 2012 - 7:07PM
#24
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I don't want to give them too much; I don't want to have to overpowered argument with my DM. Think of the trident as close to fluff.
I did look at them having Cha, but it just isn't in the monster stat blocks as much, I did give them intimidate though, as far as that goes.
I played around with some feats, tell me if any of them have the potential to be folded into the base racial features. A lot of them are water-based though, they sort of come off as trap options if you're not running an aquatic campaign.
Swift Swimmer
Prerequisite: Sahuagin
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to speed while underwater.
Eager Frenzy
Prerequisites: Sahuagin, 11th level
Benefit: You gain the eager frenzy power.
Eager Frenzy Level 11 Feature
Encounter ● Martial
Immediate Reaction Melee 1
Trigger: You bloody an enemy.
Attack: Strength + 4 vs. AC
Hit: 1d10 + strength modifier damage. You gain 10 temporary hit points.
Feeding Frenzy
Prerequisites: Sahuagin
Benefit: While 3 or more enemies you can see are bloodied, you gain +2 to damage.
Blood in the Water
Prerequisites: Sahuagin
Benefit: While underwater, you gain combat advantage against all bloodied enemies within 5 squares of you.
Rising Fury
Prerequisite: Sahuagin, 21st level
Benefit: For every non-minion enemy you kill or bloody, you gain +2 to damage for the rest of the encounter.
Uncontrollable Bloodlust
Prerequisite: Sahuagin, 11th level
Benefit: Once per encounter, when you kill a non-minion enemy, you can choose to become immobilized until the end of your next turn and gain temporary hit points equal to your healing surge value.
Sekolah's Gift
Prerequisites: Sahuagin, Cleric
Benefit: When you bloody an enemy, the next healing word you use by the end of your next turn heals 1d6 extra hit points. At 11th level, the extra hit points equal 2d6, and at 21st level they equal 3d6.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 02, 2012 - 8:46PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Something similar to eager frenzy would be an ideal racial power.
Feeding frenzy is clunky so maybe reconsider that feat.
Uncontrollable bloodlust doesn't make much sense.
Sekolah's gift however is awesome.
The problem with giving the triden to the sahaguin as a racial feature is simply that it's the worst way to encourage its use. Tridents are not attractive weapon choices on their own. You need to up the ante with extra abilities or special feats. Just giving them the weapon is not gonna encourage its use.
Sahaguin are level 10+ monsters it's reasonable to assume that lower level sahaguin have to take feats to get all the abilities presented for those.
Proposed alterations
remove trident prof (replace with special trident training feat or feats to actually encourage sahaguin to use tridents)
Craft similar special net feat(s)
Modify eager frenzy to a racial power
create feat(s) for four-armed variant
and maybe a feat for the ones that look like ... some less aggressive aquatic race (these two are probably incompatible with each other)
I'd also advise you to ditch the inbornd swim speed and make that a feat in exchange for a different feature, but that's kind of a low priority thing I'm gonna stop bothering you about now.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 4:07PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2008
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I'm more for player flexibility than versimilitude.
If someone want's to play a Sahaugin who grew up on land and never learned how to use a trident than they just don't take the trident, however if someone wants to play a Sahaugin Sorcerer who wields a trident in one hand and dagger implement in his other, the feature lets him do it.
It so barely has any effect throw the sahaugin a bone.
That said, the trident isn't that special of a weapon so think about feats that allow other classes to use them well.
Crafty Fisherman:
Rogue's can sneak attack with tridents
Storm Trident:
You can use the trident as an implement for your arcane attacks. When using your trident as an implement you do not provoke opportunity attacks for ranged attacks. In addition you gain a +2 damage to attack powers with the lightening keyword.
Sahaugin Weapon Training:
When you hold a net and trident in both hands you can push, pull, or slide the target one extra square.
Melora's Trident:
You treat a trident as a holy symbol. When you use your healing word while holding the trident the target gets a +2 to damage rolls versus bloodied enemies until the end of your next round.
Those are off the top of my head, and probably could be done much better.
The point is don't just give them a trident, give them a REASON to use a trident.
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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 9:01AM
#27
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PARAGON PATHSBlood Cleric“Let the faithful be anointed in the blood of our enemies!” Prerequisite: Sahuagin, cleric, female These most faithful followers of Sekolah are known for their ferocity and bloodlust as much as for their healing powers. They will typically go after bloodied enemies first. Some sahuagin priestesses will stay at the back of combat, casting their spells from relative safety. Blood clerics, however, can be found in the front lines with the fiercest warriors. Blood clerics are revered in sahuagin society as being specially chosen by Sekolah. Many blood clerics are high priestesses, and if not they still have a lot of influence in the sahuagin community. If a baron falls during battle, it has been known to happen that a blood cleric will take control. Blood Cleric Path Features Redoubled Frenzy (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, the damage done by your Blood Frenzy racial feature increases by 5 until the end of your next turn. Know No Fear (11th level): You have a +5 to defenses against powers with the fear keyword. Once per encounter when you are hit by an attack with the fear keyword, you can ask for a reroll. Sanguine Healing (16th level): For each bloodied non-minion enemy you deal damage to but do not kill, you regain 1 hit point. In addition, whenever you kill a non-minion enemy, you regain 5 hit points. No more than 5 hit points can be regained in this way per round. Bloody Vibrance Blood Cleric Attack 11 You use the weakness of your enemies to rejuvenate your allies. Encounter Divine, Healing, Implement Standard Action Close burst 5 Target: Each bloodied enemy in the burst. Attack: Wisdom vs. Will Hit: 3d8 + wisdom modifier damage. For each enemy you hit, an ally in the burst can spend a healing surge. Return the Favor Blood Cleric Attack 12 The enemy strikes you, and you strike back in a bloody rage. Encounter Weapon, Divine, Radiant, Healing Immediate Reaction Melee weapon Trigger: An enemy bloodies you. Attack: Strength vs. AC Hit: 2[W] + strength modifier damage. If this attack bloodies the target, make a secondary attack against the same target. Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC Hit: 1d10 radiant damage, and you regain hit points equal to the amount of damage you heal. Expectant Predator Blood Cleric Utility 20 You know you only have to wait. Your enemies’ weaknesses will only compound. Daily Divine, Zone Minor Action Close burst 5 Requirements: You must be a sahuagin. Effect: The burst creates a zone of foreboding red light around you. The zone moves with you and lasts until the end of the encounter. When an enemy becomes bloodied in the zone, it takes 5 damage and grants combat advantage to you and your allies until the end of its next turn. Bloodied enemies within the zone are vulnerable equal to the amount of damage done by your Blood Frenzy racial feature. Sahuagin Baron(by undeadpool) “I am master of the sea, and what I don’t rule, I devour.” Prerequisites: Male, sahuagin Sahuagin Baron Path Features Blood Hunger (11th level): Your sahuagin racial feature Blood Frenzy is replaced with Blood Hunger. The sahuagin baron gains a +2 bonus to attack rolls and a +5 bonus to damage rolls against bloodied targets. You gain an extra set of arms, allowing you to gain quick draw as a bonus feat. Baron’s Ferocity (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you may make a basic attack as a free action before or after taking the extra action. Chosen of the Shark God (16th level): Sekolah has sent a vision to the priestesses of a small sahuagin community that they are to pledge fealty to you. The community is self sustaining, autonomous and does not require your guidance or special attention if there is no significant threat. The community has a few raiding parties and priestesses. The DM decides how capable the community is at carrying out any commands you make of it. If for any reason the community is destroyed, Sekolah will send visions to another priestess and grant you another community. Blood in the Water Sahuagin Baron Attack 11 The smell of your prey’s wounds causes you to begin your meal before it has drawn its last breath. Encounter Martial No Action Melee 1 Trigger: An enemy adjacent to you becomes bloodied. Effect: You shift 3 squares and make the following bite attack Bite Attack: Strength +6 vs. Reflex Hit: 1d10 + strength modifier damage and the target is grabbed by you. Sustain standard: Strength +6 vs. Fortitude Hit: 2d10 + strength modifier damage and the target remains grabbed Level 21: Strength + 9 vs. Reflex
Hungry Shark Sahuagin Baron Utility 12 You know it’s only a matter of time before the feast begins. Encounter Martial Minor Action Close burst 5 Target: One enemy in the burst Effect: Until the end of your next turn the enemy is subject to the bonuses granted by your blood hunger, even if the target is not bloodied. Avatar of Sekolah Sahuagin Baron Utility 20 Sekolah blesses and acts through you, guiding your actions. Everyone is prey, only one thing matters: feed. Daily Divine, Stance Minor Action Personal Effect: You may spend a healing surge and assume the Avatar of Sekolah stance, while you are in this stance you gain the following effects: ● You may use blood in the water a second time this encounter. ● You gain a +2 power bonus to all defenses. ● You may shift 2 squares as a move action. ● You gain a +5 power bonus to damage rolls against a single creature who is bloodied.
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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 9:10AM
#28
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The point is don't just give them a trident, give them a REASON to use a trident.
I like these feats, and they do make the trident more attractive an options for sahuagin characters.
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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 8:51PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Blood cleric's 12th level power seems off
first off it's formatted as an attack power, I could whip up a utility version with largely the same result.
second, did you mean to use strength there? because the other attack is wis based.
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 7:33AM
#30
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Yeah looks like I had pasted something extra in there. How would you make it a utility? And yeah it's supposed to be str then wis.
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