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2 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2011 - 5:02PM
#371
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2003
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Maybe 5th edition will stop the pain. Seriously, they are really messing this up. Loved 4th edition from the moment I played it (more so than any other edition and played them all but original) and they are just screwing with it.
If this is the stuff that is going to happen to good classes I can't wait to see how far they lay into the ranger. If they don't then they have truely decided to throw balance from the windows.
I layed off posting a lot of this for a long time but most of it just doesn't make sense. I will be sending in a long feedback email, or at least I could if they didn't request us sending it with "Rogue" in the title line and by the 10th of July. Yet another instance of them being caught not trying.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2011 - 9:09PM
#372
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2004
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Likewise I have not posted in this thread. I pretty much agree with Lord Rock and many many posters of this thread despite all its derailments.
Yet...
I played a wizard into low paragon before AP came out, before most of the classes that make nice MC with it had appeared, before hybriding. It is indisputable that those options have consistently upped the damage for the wizard (and for every class). So despite all this, at the same time I am also struggling with what is the big deal here. There are tons of great ways to deal damage and control as a wizard, far more than when many of these powers were first written. It seemed the consensus was the wizard did better damage than the warlock or the sorcerer. The indication was clear that would not stand up. The funny thing is the wizard probably still deals better damage.
And that's the point, the list of errata is all from the PHB. If that's all you use to play, the powers are fine. When you load an edition's worth of power creep on it...I get it but why bother? Only the zone thing was even remotely relevant and everyone was already houseruling it anyway. So it was non-errata. Freakn Power Trip cause they were too slow to come up with the obvious? Classic institutional thinking.
The thing I don't like and is frustrating for me is the errata makes some players no longer thrilled their characters. They take it personally. Now it's the DMs fault. Not all styles of games handle this well. When I begin houseruling this or that, bias creeps in, whining starts (or is it the other way round). Players rationale for allowing something is more about what you let the other guy do than the ruleset and soon enough game balance is shot and fun is dead.
Am I wishy-washy, talking out both ends, LSM, whatever? I don't care. I could care less what in particular gets errated. I don't care whatever this month's bonehead errata is or the reasoning for some of the baloney and I won't care next month either. Just stop screwing up our games. And let me be clear, it makes little difference to me on the quality of the rewritten material that is produced, this pages and pages of errata IS STOOPID. Only high quality arguements from the plebs.
The response is probably: dude you can use whatever rules you want. You bet I will be. So hear that Wizards - I am ignoring you and your mindless errata and a curse on your Essentials for deceiving you into believing any of this was necessary.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 23, 2011 - 9:55PM
#373
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I will be sending in a long feedback email, or at least I could if they didn't request us sending it with "Rogue" in the title line and by the 10th of July. Yet another instance of them being caught not trying.
"Once you’ve had a chance to review and playtest the material, please send your feedback to playtesting@wizards.com with the subject line “Wizard Playtest” by July 29."
It's been like that for a few days.
Might I suggest dropping the unwarranted hostility and simply providing feedback?
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead.
- Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality! (No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
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2 years ago ::
Jul 24, 2011 - 7:17AM
#374
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What really sucks is for the players who's DM's hate and do not use Minons and make a bit more tactiicly challanging battles because there are no minions....Stuff like the Flame Sphere at end of turn is really going to hurt those encounters.. There is no control with that at end of turn...Why not just deal with the exploit and make zone damage once per turn? Simple as that.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 24, 2011 - 8:26AM
#375
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Date Joined:
May 22, 2003
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It seems as though the designers view option denial as the quintessential effect of Controllers. If you drop a zone on these here squares, then these here squares are no longer an option (unless you want to take damage). Battles will seem more chaotic, due to the scattering of enemies and constant battlefield rearrangement. -- Merely an observation; not necessarily something I condone or condemn.
It will be interesting to see what they do with Sorcerers. If they maintain their multi-target attacking, will they be the zone blasters while Wizards remain zone-deniers? Could prove a mechanical means of differentiating them.
My question is: will the zone-producing effects of Controller-esque monsters be updated to reflect these changes? Or will they be zone-blasting while PC Controllers are stuck zone-denying?
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2 years ago ::
Jul 24, 2011 - 10:03AM
#376
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Stuff like the Flame Sphere at end of turn is really going to hurt those encounters.. There is no control with that at end of turn...
There might be no control, but there will still be double damage or control + damage from the Wizard's standard action and the Flame Sphere's automatic damage.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead.
- Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality! (No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
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2 years ago ::
Jul 24, 2011 - 10:19AM
#377
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2003
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I will be sending in a long feedback email, or at least I could if they didn't request us sending it with "Rogue" in the title line and by the 10th of July. Yet another instance of them being caught not trying.
"Once you’ve had a chance to review and playtest the material, please send your feedback to playtesting@wizards.com with the subject line “Wizard Playtest” by July 29."
It's been like that for a few days.
Might I suggest dropping the unwarranted hostility and simply providing feedback?
Unwarranted you say... I say a spade's a spade.
If I look at a article for a WIZARD and am asked for MY feedback about the changes and am told to put ROGUE in the the subject line of the email by a date THAT IS ALREADY PAST I can't imagine that they are really wanting my feedback at all about the WIZARD changes. When the changes they suggest are so ill thought out- less hard control + less damage + less party friendly (effect on a miss) + damage at end of turn crap- I say I have the right to be upset and can call attention to such in a forum dedicated to discussing those changes. Will I send it out in an email to them with my feedback? NO! That would be counter productive them actually seeing that what they are doing is bad. Then I think back to ROGUE and PAST DATE stuff and realize they probably didn't really want my feedback that bad anyway. Vicious cycle.
Some of us use outrage or anger to convey our opinions on the matter, some people use humor, some try to use wit. I have, and will continue to use all 3, and when it's warranted outrage is an appropriate response.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 24, 2011 - 10:49AM
#378
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If I look at a article for a WIZARD and am asked for MY feedback about the changes and am told to put ROGUE in the the subject line of the email by a date THAT IS ALREADY PAST I can't imagine that they are really wanting my feedback at all about the WIZARD changes.
Occam's Razor. Which would be the simplest explanation: that they are actually lying when they say they want feedback, or that they made a copy-paste error?
Will I send it out in an email to them with my feedback? NO! That would be counter productive them actually seeing that what they are doing is bad.
And yet, they recognized they went overboard with the changes to the Cleric (Templar).
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead.
- Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality! (No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
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2 years ago ::
Jul 24, 2011 - 11:05AM
#379
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If I look at a article for a WIZARD and am asked for MY feedback about the changes and am told to put ROGUE in the the subject line of the email by a date THAT IS ALREADY PAST I can't imagine that they are really wanting my feedback at all about the WIZARD changes.
Occam's Razor. Which would be the simplest explanation: that they are actually lying when they say they want feedback, or that they made a copy-paste error?
Not that it's really important, but Occam's Razor isn't enforceable in this case, since hypotesis A (they lied) isn't directly depending from hypotetis B (they made an error).
Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός
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2 years ago ::
Jul 24, 2011 - 11:07AM
#380
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Not that it's really important, but Occam's Razor isn't enforceable in this case, since hypotesis A (they lied) isn't directly depending from hypotetis B (they made an error).
...Oh. 
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead.
- Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality! (No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
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