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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 7:49AM
#41
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I can see how you could argue that as well Shaka. Much like Savage Wolf feat seems to give your wolf the ability to knock prone on OA's but it has been ruled that that only works when a wolf acts independently even though the clear reading of the feat allows for ANY MBA made by the wolf to prone the target.
Oiy. RAW vs RAI and developer intent are all annoying to interpret. I don't think anywhere here will argue that RAI is that you can only use this as an MBA in Melee Touch range. I think we let it lie at RAW is ambigiuos at best.
Note: Rushing cleats will not work with this power at range, as it does not technically count as a melee attack unless used in melee touch range.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 8:28AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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You could totally ignore the rules argument and not have to deal with Wizard by using a Blade of the Eldritch Knight.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
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You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us  .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 8:35AM
#43
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You could totally ignore the rules argument and not have to deal with Wizard by using a Blade of the Eldritch Knight.
Does that work when the character uses a standard action to make a charge? I don't believe that charges are technically noted as a melee attack.... which might just shift the discussion away from this and onto that.
Pardon my ignorance if this has been discussed elsewhere and I am unaware of it. I just thought that charges were a specific action and not treated the same way as a melee attack.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 8:54AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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My personal opinion is that it's worded the way it is specifically to include charges. ("Melee attack" versus "melee attack power," which would cover basic attacks as well.) You make a melee attack as part of the charge's standard action.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 10:18AM
#45
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And from there it just cheeses up the fact that the autohitting spell magic missile can now be used on a charge (because all a charge requires is a melee basic attack) to add a ton of 'when a charge happens do this' modifiers.
Very little is charging bonus. Only the horned helm and the ability to move away.
Push 5(well 4) and slow is all normal MM boots.
guides
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my builds
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 10:55AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2003
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someone build up the blade of eldritch knight version so we can't stop arguing if it's possible and just start talking about it's awesomeness.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 11:43AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2006
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One way to go about it with the blade of the eldritch knight version is Wizard/Traveller's Harlequin to MC both fighter and rogue, with tome of readiness and improved tome of readiness to you can burn all your dailies on Wizard's Fury (if you subscribe to that interpretation. I like the idea, but can also see the potential objections to it). Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blades), Blade of the Eldritch Knight main hand, master's wand of magic missile off-hand (since the property doesn't require you cast MM through it) Spoiler:
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 16
Human, Wizard, Traveler's Harlequin
Arcane Implement Mastery: Tome of Readiness
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Wand)
Background: Birth - Cursed (Bluff class skill)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 14, Dex 11, Int 22, Wis 14, Cha 9.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 8.
AC: 25 Fort: 21 Reflex: 26 Will: 23
HP: 84 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 21
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +19, Bluff +12, Stealth +13, Acrobatics +13
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +10, Endurance +10, Heal +10, History +14, Insight +10, Intimidate +7, Nature +10, Perception +10, Religion +14, Streetwise +7, Thievery +8, Athletics +10
FEATS
Wizard: Ritual Caster
Traveler's Harlequin: Battle Awareness
Human: Shield Proficiency: Light
Level 1: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 2: Versatile Expertise
Level 4: Twilight Adept
Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 8: Skill Training (Acrobatics)
Level 11: Improved Tome of Readiness
Level 12: Roundabout Charge
POWERS
Wizard at-will 1: Magic Missile
Wizard daily 1: Wizard's Fury
ITEMS
Spellbook, Light Shield, Master's Wand of Magic Missile +1, Blade of the Eldritch Knight Bastard sword +4
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ====== So you minor action to push and slow them with wizard's fury, then charge away 5 squares and push them some more, ideally leaving them out of move and charge range. This can probably be polished up, but it gets the idea accross.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 3:27PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I can see how you could argue that as well Shaka. Much like Savage Wolf feat seems to give your wolf the ability to knock prone on OA's but it has been ruled that that only works when a wolf acts independently even though the clear reading of the feat allows for ANY MBA made by the wolf to prone the target.
Eh? I must have missed where this was ruled for Savage Wolf. In fact, in the past I've emailed CustServ about this exact feat and was told it is not only in effect when the wolf is acting independantly.
Text of my old CustServ response
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Thank you for contacting us. This effect occurs both when acting independently and when you use a power that allows the wolf to make a basic attack. I hope this helps!
Joh
Online Response Crew
Wizards of the Coast Is your understanding also from a CustServ response, or from a different source?
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 5:58PM
#49
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2 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2011 - 10:26PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Rathyr, thanks for the pointer, I hadn't seen that post before. And yeah, I tend to give Greg more credit than CustServ as well. Still, too bad CustServ never got the memo, and also too bad that the MP2 FAQ was never updated with that tidbit. Back to the main topic of Reaper's Touch, I'm still don't think I can subscribe to bogakbridgetaker's reasoning from post #30. That's basically saying it's both a Ranged 20 attack and also an MBA (which provokes) at the same time. Too wacky for my mind. I find it impossible to accept that as the intent of the feat. But here I am arguing my believed intent, and I understand CO obeys RAW. And the wording of the feat is muddy enough to be read either way legitimately, so I'll stop. Regardless, kudos again on the concept, Mellored. It's a fun idea.
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