|
2 years ago ::
Aug 06, 2011 - 10:56PM
#31
|
Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
|
In the end, though, I agree that alignment should have been taken out entirely, grognards be damned.
Hey, I like alignment in general, and I like the 3E alignment system, and I've said it would have been better to actually trash it entirely than to render it trash but then publish it - which is what they did.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2011 - 9:28PM
#32
|
|
|
if you talk about morality in a game like this thats fairly pointless.
good and bad in this game are not desided by your actions. its more a question on whos side your on. how many wars where fought with bouth sides thinking there the good guys. basicly histroy tells us thet the winner are the good guys for they shape the perseption of the outcome.
in dnd terms, the good guys are the god's who won and are in charche. every one else who trys to get beck on them is the evile guy.
so you could rename good and bad, into team blue and team red, would have the same effekt.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Aug 11, 2011 - 10:13PM
#33
|
|
|
if you talk about morality in a game like this thats fairly pointless.
good and bad in this game are not desided by your actions. its more a question on whos side your on. how many wars where fought with bouth sides thinking there the good guys. basicly histroy tells us thet the winner are the good guys for they shape the perseption of the outcome.
in dnd terms, the good guys are the god's who won and are in charche. every one else who trys to get beck on them is the evile guy.
so you could rename good and bad, into team blue and team red, would have the same effekt.
Yeah ... disagree with that pretty strongly. 'Siding with the gods' isn't an indication of alignment at all, and neither is 'opposing them' or 'not associating with them at all'. Just because the victors write the history books doesn't mean they were the good guys.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Aug 12, 2011 - 5:14AM
#34
|
|
|
well that is disputable, you key of good or bad from morality aka ethics. if that where so in d&d you would have an even bigger problem and would make an even biger case for my argument.
just have a look at human ethics, here in the western world we have some thing that is called commen agreement ethics (dont know if that is the exakt englisch translation), in this form, ethical is what the majority deemed ethical. This ethicel shiftet a lot in the last 100 years. A 100 years ago, the western ethic was strongli influenst by two ethicel systems the romen/helenisical and the christian system. now days the christian ethical system almoste lost its impackt in the socitiy. but even so, you will finde that western ethics are some thimes rather at ods with afrikan or estern ethics. you will finde that thinks with are perfektly fine, even expektet in asia (thought that is shifting to) would be uterly unethicel in the west. like having your son mary some one he does not love just to obey tradition and save the honer of the famili.
a lot of difrenzes are subtle, but thinks like, but thinks like female circumcision, absoluty ethicel and write in northafrika but is considert, Female genital mutilation in the west. so you see what you deem good or bad is keyed of ethics and that in turn is keyed of what the religion says. no to go so far and say that western ethics is good, and estern or african ethics are bad, is to say estern ethics is superior to african or estern ethics.
translate that to the game, what for one god seems good is bad for an other. on each side. in dnd the line between good and bad runs along death and chaos and live and order. but even in the chaos there are sencient beeings that live, and even in death there are sencient beeings that "live" so what makes the one superior to the other? who's to say what is write and wrong, why have the elementals less write to exist then the natural world, why has the demonic hoste less write to be free then anyone in the mortal world. who desides that? the victorios.
So keying alignment implyes ethincs, and in this case western modern ethics. if that is good or bad is all a point of view, for in dnd you dont have an all enconpsing supiror power, you had IO, and for him good and bad are equaly valiuble and have there place, from IO's perspektiv you have almoste an asian kinde of view where yin and yang have to be in balance, many unalined gods enforce exaktly that view, and will try to keep "good" and "evil" in a balance. in dnd good and evil are just two sides of the same coin.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Aug 12, 2011 - 8:44AM
#35
|
Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2010
|
If I remember correctly there are some Artifacts that were created that promote certain behavior, though it does not say anything about alignment.
I play unaligned as much as I can. I once had a character that kept the heads of those he defeated in battle, more of an eccentric bounty hunter. If my DM cared about alignment I would have been marked as evil, since I purposely decapitated an orc general, though his head came in handy to distract a Black Dragon.
Ant Farm
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Aug 13, 2011 - 12:12AM
#36
|
Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
|
Saint-Ch: None of that real-world stuff has any particular relationship to in-game alignment, and (in 4E, at least) Io is one god among many, who was killed during the Dawn War and splintered into various draconic races and two new gods (Bahamut and Tiamat) - he is not (and was not) an over-arching cosmos-defining deity (unlike some old-E presentations of him).
Likewise, only a small handful of eccentrics qualify as 'unaligned and feel that good and evil need to be kept 'in balance' - most unaligned individuals simply don't care about good or evil. Nor are good and evil cosmic forces that need to be or can be balanced against anything (including each other).
Similarly, gods (and primordials) cover a range of alignments and the gods aren't particularly "the good guys" cosmologically (as they themselves acknowledged when they made their pact with the primal spirits).
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Aug 13, 2011 - 6:07AM
#37
|
|
|
N_dragon
kompleetly agree, i just tryed to explain, that the link bettwen moral "right" actions and alignment is not legit. for what is ethical is always in the realworld as it is in the game a point of view. i remember a dragon artikle where diferent sects of ogma where presentet, of the sect activ huntet and destroied any follower of vecna, while the other colaboretet, bouth had there reasons, directly derived from the dogmas of ogma. what is good and what is bad is a point of view (ethicly) who is good and who is bad is a point of view form the victorios.
|
|
|
