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2 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2011 - 8:57AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Apr 20, 2011
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You are really looking way too deeply at the rules here and making it much more complicated than it needs to be.
Lol.
well you are
No, Darth, I'm not. I'm reading what the rules I've been shown actually say, and I'm drawing the first most basic inferences from them. There's nothing 'too deep" about that. It's what most of us do every time we engage in the activity called reading.
And by doing this I prompted you to take a further look at the rules and as a result, you were able to finally find the relevant one to answer the OP. This is great! We did it! Except you chose to blithely insult me along the way. Poor form.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 03, 2011 - 10:56AM
#12
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In reference to a situation where a dungeon battle results in the loss of all pieces on both sides the pertinent questions seem to be:
1. Does the heroes' player get the treasure anyway?
2. Do you then replace the monsters?
3. Do the monsters just heal to full, despite being killed?
Of these I believe the rules clearly answer #1 and #3:
1. No. Because you did not win (p.15 "If all the attacking pieces are destroyed...the attacker loses the battle") you get neither gold (p.14 At the end of a battle if you won, your realm gets an extra reward in gold") nor Treasure (p.16 "If you win.. your Heroes get to Plunder the dungeon" and back cover/Quick Reference card "PLUNDER DUNGEON only if you win").
3. No. Because the Dungeon Guardians were destroyed (p.14 “if you lose the battle...all the surviving Dungeon Guardians return to full strength").
Question #2 is harder to answer as there is inconclusive or potentially contradictory information in the rulebook. Page 17 states "After you defeat all of the dungeon's inhabitants...Place 2 Dungeon Guardian tokens on the vacant dungeon entrance" while the back cover/quick Reference card state "RESTOCK DUNGEON only if you win". The back cover/Quick Reference card wording is clear - you did not win so you would not restock the dungeon. The reference on p.17 is less clear because it uses the term "defeat". This could be interpreted two ways:
1. You destroyed all of the Dungeon Guardians, therefore you defeated all of the dungeon's inhabitants and should restock the dungeon.
2. You did not win the battle and therefore did not defeat all of the dungeon inhabitants and should not restock the dungeon. This supports the wording on the back cover/Quick Reference.
I think there is more support for the second interpretation and that is what I would rule. However I think there is enough uncertainty to warrant a FAQ response from the designers.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 05, 2011 - 12:35PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I think there is more support for the second interpretation and that is what I would rule. However I think there is enough uncertainty to warrant a FAQ response from the designers.
Yeah, this interpretation seems closest to what the rules actually say, which is really the heart of the dilemma for my group, since it also doesn't seem likely to be what the actual intent would be.
The way we ran it when it came up was simply to have the player lose his units, gain the treasure anyway (they carried them out with their dying breaths?) and restock the dungeon as per normal.
Our logic was basically that: 1) As you note, the dungeon guardians wouldn't heal up as they were destroyed; 2) In order to restock the dungeon, the battle needed to count as a win; 3) Not restocking didn't really seem a reasonable option; 4) Thus, we decided that the heroes did but still counted as defeating the guardians, thus earning treasure as well as requiring restocking.
Perhaps not the strictest interpretation of the rules, but given that the rules seem somewhat contradictory in this area (with different phrasings implying the same outcome could be both victory and defeat), it seemed like a viable option in the absence of any definite ruling.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 05, 2011 - 1:10PM
#14
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There is definitely a lack of clarity that gives you leeway to rule as you prefer. However, I am comfortable with result of the rules being that you do not get a reward in gold, that you do not plunder the dungeon (and therefore do not get a treasure card) and that you do not restock the dungeon guardians. I would also rule that the next Hero to enter the dungeon defeats all of the (zero) dungeon guardians, wins the battle, and gets to plunder the dungeon (similar to a piece conquering an empty enemy territory). This matches up to what happens if a single dungeon guardian is destroyed - the dungeon is now easier for subsequent Heroes to defeat and although they don’t get gold for defeating the guardian that was already destroyed they get to plunder the dungeon. It also produces an interesting tactical event where players might stretch themselves to reach the undefended dungeon first (of course, because you are more likely to enter dungeons near your own territory it is likely that you will be able to claim the treasure yourself).
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2 years ago ::
Nov 02, 2011 - 1:35PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Oct 22, 2004
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Hmm
I'm wouldn't be doing this. I think it would be better:
you do not get a reward in gold, that you do not plunder the dungeon (and therefore do not get a treasure card) and that the dungeon guardians heal. New Heroes would have to defeat the same guardian.
Reason: The Defender won because the attacker died. That is why in a standard battle, you don't win a territory if you're attacking piece die. Maybe an option would be to Re-Stock with only one card if the dungeon had one card.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 12, 2011 - 5:19PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2009
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In case future people look at this thread (since it's already been necro-bumped); according to the game designers, in this case the monsters do not respawn, the player gets no loot, and the next player to send one or more heroes into the dungeon gets the loot without a fight. Source: www.boardgamegeek.com/article/7099361#70...
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