Yeah, I must also comment on the fact that it doesn't seem like you fitted the setting together appropriately regarding the fact that it had only been 6 generations (if you calculate a generation as about 30 years) since the First arrived in the Land. In other words, the earliest humans in the land goes only as far back as to be a current human's great grandparent's great grandparents. I understand that you represented this by the fact that the Land is still sparsely populated, but in any case, parts of the descriptions you give of the world almost presents it as rather ancient. Still, it's nice to have a setting with a "fresh start".
Thanks!
I could easily revise this part of the setting to be 10 or 20 generations--based on the comments, I think I will do just that.
Haven't had a chance to read through it yet, but base don comments here, and your own comment, you want this to be low-magic/fantasy. That's all well and good but I think you may have some misconceptions as to what that means. If you think that in a low-fantasy settign people don't use heavy armors, or possibly wear them when on duty, you'd be way wrong. If you want a really good example of low-magic check out A Song of Fire & Ice, specifically Game of Thrones (watch the TV series if you have a chance to in fact), it does low-fantasy very very well.
I am basing this setting off of Fafhrd and Gray Mouser, Conan, Elric of Melnibone, and the Iron Heroes game. In those settings, magic exists, monsters exist, and heavy armor is rare and often inconvenient (except in planned battles). I am familar with A Song of Fire and Ice.
I suggest you read the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories by Fritz Lieber. More than anything else, those stories represent what I am going for. I'm not trying to make a world with only subtle magic, or where magic is only used by the bad guys, but where magic is unusual and often dangerous, and mistrusted by common folk. In a typical campaign, there are likely to be no magic or psionic characters at all, and PCs likely won't have any magic items until mid-paragon level (and only low-powered ones with drawbacks at that). That says low fantasy to me.
1. The Founder wanted to create a small world, not just a city. Also, the "just a city" idea has been done in Sigil and Union. The expanses of empty space weren't always thus--there are ruins from the First civilization, too.
2. There are no elves--the world was created from the Maelstrom. Everything there was brought, created, or came with the slaadi later on. It is weird that folks have little memory or knowledge of something 200 years ago. It should be weird--what the heck happened? That is central to the backstory of the Land. The religion question is strange, too--they are aware of a creator, but he doesn't act like a god. Why?
3. This setting is like Fahrd and Gray Mouser: magic and monsters exist, everyone knows about them, but they are usually bad. Psionics are rare, but tolerated. In a given campaign, there will likely be zero or one psionic character. The players might meet a couple low-powered psionic NPCs. Likewise, no magic item shops. It is "low fantasy", not "no magic". Though there are monsters, the more unusual and magical ones don't make an appearance until paragon level, typically.
4. The gith have a very different agenda than Tolkien elves.
1- That was just me brain storming off your idea into one of my own. Then throwing it out to see if anyone else thought it might be cool. (The difference with sigil/union being a finite space, that is ever shrinking. Gives the setting a neat twist, where everyone knows the end date of the calendar)
2- You get what I mean though right? Its fantasy world. It is very possible that sentient things were around to watch him drop these guys off. Also, how does one act like a god? I would expect at minimum people to send him prayers, and sacrifices. If he ignores them completely that is fine, and could play into the religion. The idea that a sentient all powerful thing exists, interacted with them, and told them "I put you here for a reason" but no one cares about him seems weird.
3- I get low fantasy. My point was, you keep talking about all these epic scale threats, giant dragons, psionic monsters, elementals, ect, but then talking about how no one does magic and it is very low fantasy, or "Realistic". You keep saying "This is low fantasy" but the text presented is not.
4- Their agenda isn't what I was talking about. Tolkien's elves are criticised for being basically perfect in every way and better than all other races because {Author Fiat}. Basically a Mary Sue.
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1. Sounds good, actually. I don't expect many folks to take my campaign world and use it as is.
2. I get your meaning. Still, in this world, there was nothing before the Founder created it. Humans were the first sentients there. Then came the slaadi, the gith, and The Faceless, and so on. As far as caring about the Founder, some worship him, all acknowledge him, yet he seemingly does not interact with the people. It is one of the mysteries of the Land.
3. Hmm. Maybe you focused a lot on a couple sentences in the opening. Most of the game centers around the PCs day-to-day lives (see p. 7). Also, here is an excerpt from the DM book I am writing:
"
A campaign Under a False Sky is mixture of low and heroic fantasy. The stories of Conan, Elric, and Fafhrd and Gray Mouser are the basis for this type of campaign. The characters are heroic, to be sure, but lack most of the overt magical power common in Dungeons and Dragons. The following tropes are in play:
Unlikely Heroes. Player characters become heroes as a consequence of motivations other than the desire to be do-gooders. Most characters partake of the adventuring life to gather wealth, to explore the world, or to ease their boredom. The most common alignment will be unaligned, with some good, and a few evil.
Gray Morality. With no forces of good, the main conflicts in the Land are among the forces of destruction (slaadi), corruption (Faceless), and balance (gith). Human society is the battleground, but human city-states also fight among themselves. Characters are usually on the periphery of these conflicts (until paragon or epic level), and might work for different sides depending on their motivation. PCs are unlikely to become devoted members of a slaadi cult or Faceless spies, but they could become entangled with nefarious organizations. In all likelihood, the characters will generally work for the common good, especially if there is something in it for them.
Episodic Stories. Try hard to create short adventures with 2-5 combat or skill challenge encounters. This campaign should feel like a series of connected short stories, rather than the chapters of a novel. Each tier of play could feature a longer adventure that takes place over two or three sessions. Persistent NPCs and the occasional recurring villain provide some background continuity. Encourage the players to develop their PCs—characterization should be a driving force in the campaign.
Personal Scope. Heroic tier adventures should be about survival, taking jobs, or dealing with the vagaries of life in the Land. Heroic characters most likely find adventure in cities, towns, or on the road. Paragon characters also spend most of their time in these locations, possibly using them as bases to explore the wilderness, the Sea, or even ruins of the First. Paragon characters (especially those with certain backgrounds) also might be involved in politics, military clashes, or the criminal underworld. Epic characters have likely attracted the attention of the slaadi, the Faceless, and the gith. Likewise, they possess the skill and power to explore the deepest ruins, the Twilight Wastes, and possibly the Founder’s Isle.
Humor and Horror. Heroic tier adventures are more likely to have a comic tone than a serious one. That’s good, and it will help offset the more serious adventures to come. As characters advance in level and uncover the disturbing secrets of the Land, stories can become dark or horrifying. Unless you want to make a campaign featuring this tone, allow the mood to lighten up between adventures, or even run some “day in the life” adventures at higher levels.
Mundane Settings. As noted above, most adventures occur within cities, towns, and roads. The next most common locations are forests, rivers, and the foothills. The mountains, the ruins of the First, and the Sea feature dangerous creatures, but are still fairly normal surroundings. Adventures in the Twilight Wastes, islands far at sea, or even in the Maelstrom, are typically reserved for epic tier play.
Suspicious Sorcery. Most folk (not just commoners) are suspicious all forms of magic, including psionic power. Those known to practice arcane magic are prosecuted as law-breakers, and are assumed to be in league with the slaadi or the Faceless. Characters that have non-human aspects to their appearance (slaad-cursed, those tainted by the Faceless, or Planar Castaways) must disguise themselves or risk being arrested or attacked. The PCs should have a healthy dose of arcane skepticism, too. When they find a new magic item, they should be more worried about what it will do to them, rather than how they will use it."
4. The Gith are by no means the Mary Sue. They are few in number and generally occupied with keeping the Land together. What gave you the impression that they are better than the humans? Or that they are perfect in every way? Is it because players are not allowed to use them?
most don't use psionics. Except the Gith who do all the time.
They live in their own pretty cool citadels, while everyone else is dirt farmers.
The gith battle the sladii while the humans can just run and hide from them.
have any and all magic items. "Items that use psionic power are known, but are still exceedingly rare, and usually are sought after by the both the gith and the Faceless"
***edited in*** I didn't notice players can't play them. That does not help the case.
They are magic, live far from everyone else in awesome castles while everyone else lives in the dirt, are the only ones who can battle the evil, and have all the magic items. *** also players can't be them.
Also, I'm not normally this guy at all but in rereading it...
"The physical appearance of the people of the Land varies widely, since the First were drawn from a mix of human stock. The ruling family of Serras is noteworthy for having fair skin, dark hair, and green or hazel eyes. Among the populace, moderate skin tones and hair colors are more common than very dark or light ones. "
Comes off pretty racist. The ruling powers are known for being super white.The commoners are moderate in skin tone, and dark tones are rare. When creating a new fantasy setting it is your chance to flip cultural norms, expectations, and stereotypes on end. Why not have a ruling family that is very dark, and the the bulk of the populace moderate to pale. It just seems un-neccessicary to include skin tone at all, and so the inclusion of "Also white dudes are in charge" comes off really weird.
I want to make it clear I am not saying "You are racist for doing this" but rather "This, probably unintentionally, comes off a little strange".
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
2. I get your meaning. Still, in this world, there was nothing before the Founder created it. Humans were the first sentients there. Then came the slaadi, the gith, and The Faceless, and so on. As far as caring about the Founder, some worship him, all acknowledge him, yet he seemingly does not interact with the people. It is one of the mysteries of the Land.
Thats very much a religion.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
most don't use psionics. Except the Gith who do all the time.
They live in their own pretty cool citadels, while everyone else is dirt farmers.
The gith battle the sladii while the humans can just run and hide from them.
have any and all magic items. "Items that use psionic power are known, but are still exceedingly rare, and usually are sought after by the both the gith and the Faceless"
***edited in*** I didn't notice players can't play them. That does not help the case.
They are magic, live far from everyone else in awesome castles while everyone else lives in the dirt, are the only ones who can battle the evil, and have all the magic items. *** also players can't be them.
The gith are not DM PCs, and you are reading a lot into my description. Maybe someone else could, too. You reveal a lot about your own preferences in your commentary, assuming that the gith play a major role in every campaign, and that everyone would want to play one.
Gith * Use psionics, but PCs can, too. A character can even be a multiclassed psionics user (a wild talent), as noted in the book. * Live monastic existence in the wilderness and near ruins--not in "cool citadels"; I don't think I wrote anything like what you said. PCs, on the other hand, can choose to be from rich families living in the lap of luxury. Most common folk live in cities, not as dirt farmers. * The gith battle the slaadi, yes. PCs do, too, at higher levels. Common folk usually interact with the slaadi by becoming involved in a cult (willingly or unwillingly). * They don't have "any and all magic items". I'm not sure why you thought this: they "seek them out", because magic items are usually cursed, and psionic items might prove useful in their struggles. PCs seek out special items, too. * They serve at the pleasure of the Founder, so they are not free to seek their own destinies. This makes them bad choices for PCs. Also, they are in on part of the mystery of the Land. Think of players playing a Darklord (even a minor one) in a Ravenloft campaign. It is possible, but it changes the nature of the game greatly.The Gith are part of the setting. They are not individually characters, in general.
They are not the only ones that "battle the evil". In a sense, they are a force that merely holds chaos at bay--perhaps they cause stagnation. Think of the conflicts in the Elric stories. The PCs, on the other hand, might actually be the ones to carry the fight--or not, depending on the campaign.
Also, I'm not normally this guy at all but in rereading it...
"The physical appearance of the people of the Land varies widely, since the First were drawn from a mix of human stock. The ruling family of Serras is noteworthy for having fair skin, dark hair, and green or hazel eyes. Among the populace, moderate skin tones and hair colors are more common than very dark or light ones. "
Comes off pretty racist. The ruling powers are known for being super white.The commoners are moderate in skin tone, and dark tones are rare. When creating a new fantasy setting it is your chance to flip cultural norms, expectations, and stereotypes on end. Why not have a ruling family that is very dark, and the the bulk of the populace moderate to pale. It just seems un-neccessicary to include skin tone at all, and so the inclusion of "Also white dudes are in charge" comes off really weird.
I want to make it clear I am not saying "You are racist for doing this" but rather "This, probably unintentionally, comes off a little strange".
I can see the concern here. The Ulvars family is notoriously cruel, so this might cast white people in a bad light. I simply picked a distinctive appearance for the ruling family, and I liked the idea of fair, dark, and green. But "super white"? Again, I think you were reading into what I wrote and took away a much different meaning. The bulk of the population has moderate skin tones because a mix of different people, over generations, without race/skin prejudices, would eventually have a population of moderate skin tones.
As far as flipping cultural norms? I wasn't thinking along those lines. Let's see--how about this? Homosexuality is treated as just another character trait of no special importance.
I can see the concern here. The Ulvars family is notoriously cruel, so this might cast white people in a bad light. I simply picked a distinctive appearance for the ruling family, and I liked the idea of fair, dark, and green. But "super white"? Again, I think you were reading into what I wrote and took away a much different meaning. The bulk of the population has moderate skin tones because a mix of different people, over generations, without race/skin prejudices, would eventually have a population of moderate skin tones.
As far as flipping cultural norms? I wasn't thinking along those lines. Let's see--how about this? Homosexuality is treated as just another character trait of no special importance.
Looks like we are gonna disagree on the gith.
Skin tone- they are known for their fair skin. Everyone else is moderate. They are super (Extremely) white in comparison to others. I didn't see anywhere that they were jerks, but I may have missed it.
Homosexuality- Just like skin tone, there is no need to include this blurb at all. But if you do, I guess this would be an ok way to do so.
My main point on flipping norms was that it seemed weird that you bothered to include the skin tone bit at all, and so that you included it and it was "Enforcing the stereotype of the real world" seemed like a weird thing.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
Like I said, I can see how this description might be off-putting to some. I think I will keep the dark hair and green eyes, and lose the skin tone.
I made the homosexuality example was that flipping cultural norms just because it is a novel setting sometimes can come off strange or forced.
In any case, I appreciate your commentary.
As for the Gith, there is much more information about their role in the DM book I am writing. Simply put, they are really part of the setting, not main characters. If players really wanted Gith PCs, it could be done, but the campaign would be very different. A better idea would be to use a different campaign world.
In any case, the book can be used for the Hero Point mechanic, different encumberance/wealth rules, and new classes/feats. Some might find the background and trait system useful in other monoracial games, too.
