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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 4:29AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2011
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Would you consider stealing and conning evil or neutral actions? I'm having an argument with my DM about this, and i'd like to here you oppinion Thanks
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 4:58AM
#2
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That's a hard question to answer 100% yes or 100% no. It depends on who is being stolen from, and what your end goals are. Without getting into a really heavy argument over ethics, a good test is to ask "Who is going to benefit from this - me or someone else?"
If you are stealing or conning to prevent harm to someone else, that is likely justified. If you are just trying to get more loots for yourself, that is likely evil. If you are stealing and conning from other members of the party then that is a whole different mess, which can really derail a game unless the whole group agrees that they want to play that kind of game.
I heard that they are making a new video game, where you control the Netherese flying citadel of Sakkors, raining death on your helpless enemies below. Working title: Mythal Command.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 5:12AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2011
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I would have to admit that yes, it is entirely self-motivated thievery adn exploitation, but the character also performs unarguably good deeds outside of regular society while on quests, etc... my question is more whether it makes the character evi or not.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 6:22AM
#4
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Got any examples?
What are you stealing?
From whom are you stealing?
Why are you stealing this from them?
Btw, imho, doing good and evil things doesn't make a character neutral. It makes him an evil character who does good because he thinks that he can repay his evil that way.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 6:49AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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I would have to admit that yes, it is entirely self-motivated thievery adn exploitation, but the character also performs unarguably good deeds outside of regular society while on quests, etc... my question is more whether it makes the character evi or not.
I agree that few actions are inherently evil in a vacuum, but in general, selfish actions are evil. As Mysteria stated, you aren't neutral by doing both good and evil deeds. What is the character's overall motivation for these actions? It sounds like the character is performing the good deeds to either assuage some guilt, or else be a cover for his more nefarious (love that word) deeds.
Without more information, I'd say the character is evil with neutral tendancies. Now, if (s)he is doing robin hood-style actions, where (s)he is restricting the thefts to evil targets only, and then using the money to benefit others, then I'd say it's a good character with neutral tendancies.
Alignment is more about motivation than outward actions.
Magic Dual Color Test
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 7:02AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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watch that show leverage, all they do is con and steal but they're all good people. as long as what you're doing is nonviolent and fairly victimless i would concede it to be at the very worst unaligned.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 7:41AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2011
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you've all given me alot to think about, I suppose that it's basically motivation not the action. Thanks all 
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 4:27PM
#8
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You lose. Your DM is right.
Now what was the question?
Morality? Just about any action judged either can be found to be the reverse if we add the right additional facts. So we are in a rather endless argument. It is the DM's job to resolve such and so he by definition rules on whether the act is evil or good.
The presumption here very much is that the actions described can be deemed evil.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 6:57PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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Also remember that unaligned in 4e includes doing selfish things. Evil is supposed to represent the "evil to the core" archtype.
From what you describe I'd clearly put your character in unaligned. A cad, and not nice person. But unaligned.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2011 - 7:16PM
#10
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The idea that any person is evil without intentionally bringing harm to others for either nefarious or selfish reasons is completely absurd, imo.
Your character is neutral at worst. Theivery isn't evil, it's just crappy.
And DMs are often wrong. Being DM doesn't make them right. It just makes them the guy with the highest hard of cards.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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