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2 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2011 - 4:34AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2003
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Yeah, yeah I know. It's been brought up endlessly, and every thread I've seen about this idea lasts for 3 pages tops with no real input or ideas. Let's get a few things out of the way:
1 - I don't want people posting (/nasal whiny tone) "But Star Wars already has a RPG called SAGA go play that" or "Why would you want to do that. That's stupid!" (/end nasal whiny tone), or any other rebuttal against the idea. It's not hurting you if myself and like-minded individuals want to dig in and actually do this thing. I can't stress this enough - It's not hurting you. If you don't like it, don't read the thread and ignore it's existance! PLEASE!
The reason I am looking into this is because I despise anything remotely similar to 3.5. SAGA still has a lot of the hold overs from 3.5 - full-round actions, differing BaB between classes, and racial penalties, and the clunky 'I'll dip into this class to get this ability' multi-classing, to name a few. Secondly the 4e rules set seems oddly perfect for Star Wars considering the mobile easily cinemitized combats that happen in 4e vs. the static combats that tend to happen in SAGA. Also, I have none of the SAGA books and I am unwilling to pay the ridonkulous prices they want on eBay and Amazon, and I will not risk viruses (or possible fines) by downloading illegal PDFs and torrents.
2 - None of this 'use a Swordmage or Psionic this or that and refluff it = boom jedi etc'. No. Just no. I want fully realized classes that are built for the flavor and themes of Star Wars, not a refluffed D&D class. I'm not necessarily looking for a reskinned D&D exactly. I just want to be able toi run a Star Wars game using the 4e rules set.
3 - If you have any ideas whatsoever that can contribute, then by all means, throw it into the pot and see what happens. Also if we can get enough information on this idea, maybe we can start a wiki for it, but that's getting ahead of myself.
So in closing on those 3 points, this thread of for those of us who want a fully realized Star Wars RPG using the 4e rules set. We can trade ideas for classes, powers, rules and other ideas here and help each other keep things balanced. I know there are people out there who want this, I've seen the threads and none of them got any positive responses. Well here is a place for us to congregate and share ideas and information (until they decide this thread is the wrong place and move it).
Now to some of my ideas in brief - firstly I would only do 1-20, Star Wars just doesn't fit the Epic tier of play in my eyes, high Paragon is the stopping point for Star Wars. I would also either do away with Power Sources, or there would only be 2: Force and Martial/Tech.
The Martial/Tech classes would be Soldier (Defender/Striker), Scoundrel (Striker), Scout (Controller/Striker), Noble (Leader/Controller).
The Force power source it would be Force Warrior (Defender/Striker), Force Adept (Striker), Force Sorcerer (Controller), Force Sage (Leader). The reason for the generic force user class names is so that you can be a part of any Force Tradition or Order and simply add something similar to a Theme to become a Jedi or a Sith or what have you, not sure how this would work exactly, at least not yet, but I figure it would change the name of the class based on the tradition or order (i.e. Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Consular, Jedi Sage).
There could be other classes (and Power Sources, maybe, but that's pushing it), like Engineer or Bounty Hunter, if anyone can come up with them, but otherwise I figure they would be builds and paragon paths.
Now while I am against taking classes whole-sale from D&D, I am not against taking a power here and there if it fits thematically with the class in question. Yes this means we could see Swordmage powers alongside Battlemind powers. If anyone has the SAGA books I am sure we could use the talents as a guideline for powers as well (and the force powers, duh lol), and some of the feats would probably port over decently with some tweaks. Also, while I am not fond of Essentials, this may be one place where I could see using Essentials design for classes (would make it easier and quicker), though if we can come up with fully realized AEDU o4e classes I would be happier with that.
Not quite sure how to convert vehicle/space combat. Figure you could slap roles on the vehicles based on what they were designed to do (Starfighter = Defender, Bomber = Controller, Interceptor = Striker, Capital Ship = Leader etc, just a thought). Again not sure how to work this quite yet, this may be one of the biggest hurdles to over come in this project.
NPC/monster stats - I figure maybe set up a template that sets up the humanoid NPCs (what most Star Wars games consist of) from 1-20 using Monster themes/templates to add race and class. Creatures such as the Rancor and Krayt Dragon we would need to come up with full stats for. As I am not familiar with how monsters are put together and balanced for 4th, this is going to be a hurdle for me at least.
And that would cover it, outside of a few skills and their description/example DCs, but if again if anyone has the SAGA books we could easily port those over. Oh and races, but that should be easy enough tbh.
That's all for now, will check in perodically and post when I have something more (like classes, powers, etc).
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2 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2011 - 2:28PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2010
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While I am not personaly a fan of such games I will lend what advice /sugestions I can think of.
Monster creation: is actualy prety easy if you get the monster builder program WOTC offers, it could lend very well for this. Just make a bunch of custome monsters for base monster races, then any time you want to make a monster with classes or theme use the edit a copy of this monster button and change the rols type (solo minions ect) and lvl then add in powers you have in mind over all the program makes it super easy to balence and create a new monster with little effort so your covered there more or less.
Class: For this I would at first ignore the power source thats more fluff then anything anyhows. what I would start with is make a list of all classes you wanted, perhaps jedi and sith could be a theme or more relisticaly a paragon path for force using classes. Rebel/ emperial or whatever faction could be themes as that I think would lend best. Once you have a list of all the classes you could think of again only heroic classes at this point. Then assigne each class a role -striker defender-leader- so on and so forth. This will give you a prety good guidline for class features. next go through and think of what things each class type did in the movies books other rpg books that sets them aside from other classes. don't detail these yet just make a list of there strong points and weak points so that you have a guidline for class features and powers for each class. Next make a thread for each class. In that thread list all the details about the class you have so far, link back to the main thread and on the main thread link to all the sub threads. This is a lot of work to create the threads but once there created you can ingnore most of them except when someone posts on them. The reason for so many difrent threrads is often people get overwhelmed by long posts such as the one you have here or even my responce to you. so many smaller posts will see more feedback, also if a thread starts to get to many pages take all the updates and start a new thread linking to botht he old thread and the main thread so again people can further refine what you have without reading a zillion pages.
Vehicles: This could be rather dificult I would strongly sugest looking into spell jammer material, other jedi material, and of cource any form of ship combat 4th ed has to offer. Vehicles should be able to be handled much like navel combat and movment, the fluff is difrent but the game mechanics are extreamly similar. with just a little work I ams ure you could determain a good system, barrow from mounted combat for land vehicles and navel combat for larger ships and space type combat. For walkers and the such could even designe a monster/npc template perhaps solo typed to represent the char while inside the vehicle such as walkers and the like (spead bikes and vehicls that don't fully hide the user should be done like mounted combat with difrent fluff and of cource difrent powers and junk but rule wise like mounted combat where pilot replaces mounted combat feat)
In closing get us the basics down then we can start to help you more effectivly.
An' ye harm none, do what ye will
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2 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2011 - 6:36PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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For a starting point, I would check out Amethyst from Dias Ex Machina. It has modern classes, sci-fi weapons and vehicles (and vehicle handling rules), explosives, and new skills. They are also (hopefully) releasing Ultramodern4 soon. While these wouldn't have force rules or lightsabers or anything SW-specific, it could at least give you a solid (and playtested) base to work with and save you some time.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 11:29AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2005
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I wrote up a 4e star wars conversion a while back, but I think I deleted the files and never put it online. So this is all IIRC At its core it was basically a 4e skin. You have 3 power sources. The Force, Leadership, and Military. (or something). I don't paticualrly like the names. Tech sounds familiar, but I don't remember if I hadit or not. (Maybe PHB 2 planned?) Make a class for each role and power source = 12 classes. Make traditional 4e classes, and you can probably even steal the powers straight from the phb. Swapping "Arrow" for "Laser" or "Sword" for "Laser Sword". The Force
- Consular (Leader) Focused on diplomacy and healing based force powers. Also debuffs.
- Gaurdian (Defender) Focused on lightsaber combat. Drawing attacks, and reflecting blaster fire. (You can reflect blaster fire with the multiclass feat)
- Witch (Controller) Uses force lightning, and projectile force attacks. Including force throw stuff
- Infiltrator (Striker) Uses the force to sneak around and not be seen. (Darth Maul, Quinlan Vos)
Leadership
- Noble (Leader) Leia. Is the face. Buffs and debuffs mostly. Warlord style healing
- Scoundrel (Striker) Han Solo
- Muscle (Defender) Chewie. Big dude who throws his weight around.
- (Controller)
Military
- Heavy Trooper (Defender) uses a big gun to draw attention, or a melee weapon like a fighter
- Scout Trooper (Striker) Sneaks around. Maybe plants bombs?
- Medic (Leader) Healing through dotoring stuff. Stim Packs?
- Support (Controller) Has a sniper rifle
For Races, I had humans and a point based alien creator. There are too many races to bother making an individual race write up for each one. Tell the players to make the one they want to use. Had a file for ones players had already played and the DM approved. I did not go into vehicles and monsters can use the same 4e rules.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 1:25PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2003
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Thanks for the input so far everyone.
@stargazer - I like the idea of doing sub-threads, so I probably will, I just hope I don't end up annoying other forum-goers with that many threads about this topic.
@bone naga - I will check for that at my FLGS (he carries one of everything it seems) so I can flip through the book and see what they have. Thanks for the suggestion.
@Krusk - If you ever find those files, please let me know. In fact send me a PM if you find them and I'll get you my e-mail address so you can send it as an attachment. What you have there looks decent, opens up some doors in terms of design. Despite what you say abotu the races, I will probably still do write-ups for them but I will limit it to the ones that are most common - Human, Wookie, Rodian, Twi'lek, Sullustan, Mon Cal, and Duros. Any others I will do on a case by case basis as palyers want them. Will probably do some droid 'races' (probably using the Warforged as an idea basis) as well.
Once my schedule clears up a bit more, I will be working on some write-ups to post here (or in sub-threads). Think I'll start with some basic races first, since that'll be the easiest, at least to me.
Otherwise keep the ideas flowing.
Edit: And the big decision - go with Essentialized class design or O4E class design...?
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 6:31PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2005
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I'd go traditional 4e, because clas design is easier. Less work on your end. End of the day either will work, but since you are writing a new game entirely, its probably easier for traditional 4e. Don't do subthreads. You will annoy me. The typical thing is to do one thread, but reserve the first 10~ posts. Type the word Reserved #1. Reserved #2, ect. Then go back and edit stuff in as you have it finished. I think the first thing you should do is core system, then classes, then races. Lastly vehicles. Core rules should be fairly quick. "4e but this change". Classes are probably the biggest point of balance, and you need them around to make sure no race is too good at one class. I'll let you know if I find it. I searched my PC and didn't see it, but I may have printed it for use at the table? If I did I can scan it.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 10:42PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2010
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I never bothered with the codeing but if using a single thread use the little option that makes the class hide till you click on it. Like the stickied post about races and a few comments have said to much in a single thread makes people not want to mess with them. perhaps work on a single class at a time when it's fine tunes prob take a weak or so maybe less then put it in a reserved spot of the main thread and let the race thread drift fo dust.
I for one never got hrough a thread if I see a zillion replies simply becouse it's to much to read to catch up.
An' ye harm none, do what ye will
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2 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2011 - 7:20AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2005
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{sblock} HIdden content {/sblock} use [ instead of {.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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2 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2011 - 10:20PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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One thing that will substantially lighten your workload: don't bother making two full tiers' worth of powers. Star Wars doesn't have enough intrinsic variety to warrant it. Ten levels of powers with upgradeable effects depending on what level they're taken at should be sufficient, and will be much easier to read.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 22, 2011 - 1:14AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2003
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One thing that will substantially lighten your workload: don't bother making two full tiers' worth of powers. Star Wars doesn't have enough intrinsic variety to warrant it. Ten levels of powers with upgradeable effects depending on what level they're taken at should be sufficient, and will be much easier to read.
Funny thing here is that I was thinking of doing something similar to this, using the Psionic classes as a template for choosing and upgrading powers. In fact I hope to post some rudimentry example powers and the idea that I will be using soon. I know, it's already been a couple of days since I started the post, but I only have so much time on my hands 
By the way does anyone have any ideas on how to balance the weapons and armor? I knwo for weapons I would have to add proficiency bonuses to line up with the 4e rules set, but rolling 9d6 not to mention 9d8 on a 3[W] damage attack power (like a daily or higher level encounters) seems a bit much. Even 6d8 seems high for a weapon that will see a lot of use. 9d6 would be for a blaster pistol (base 3d6) and 9d8 for the blaster rifle (base 3d8), 6d8 for lightsabers (base 2d8) in the SAGA rules (if I'm remembering that correctly). Maybe make th edamage mor ein line with D&D? Pistols being 1d6 or 1d8 and rifles being 1d10?
Also I know that armor isn't used by a lot of characters in the SW universe, but then there are characters that swear by it, like the troopers of many eras, bounty hunters, and Jedi and Sith during the Sith Wars. Was thinking about making a Dodge class feature that would be given to certain classes that would basically be their version of armor (kind of like the Swordmage or Avenger AC bumps), and others armor proficiencies. I would like to see certain classes using armor and make it appealing to use unlike previous SW game systems.
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