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Switch to Forum Live View Project: Star Wars 4E conversion
2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2011 - 3:07PM #11
bone_naga
Date Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 9,961
Keep the damage in line with D&D. Lasers and lightsabers should have special properties to make them unique rather than just doing uber damage. This is part of why I recommend looking at Amethyst. They have tech classes that balance with regular D&D classes. Some people complained to them that guns should automatically do more damage, but as the designers recognized the advantage of guns lie in areas other than sheer damage potential.

To look at it another way, does a bullet to your torso do more damage than an axe to your face? Not to mention that HP damage does not always equate to physical wounds. Even lightsabers, as cool as they are, should rely on the attack powers to do damage rather than the weapon itself. Otherwise everyone would use them. Instead, most people use vibroblades as melee weapons and lightsabers are reserved for jedi or a few rare others that have trained in their use.

As for armor, some classes should use it and others should get by with ability bonuses or other features that make up for it. Soldiers, bounty hunters, and pirates are all mentioned as using armor. Smugglers, jedi, scouts, and other similar characters will probably make due with light or no armor. In other words, it still isn't that different from D&D. Your frontline warriors generally wear armor, whereas your skirmishers and magic-users (or in this case, Jedi) need mobility.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 23, 2011 - 3:03AM #12
Phantymwolf
Date Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 545
Thanks for the advice naga, and I looked at the Amethyst stuff today at my local store, and yeah I can totally see stealing some powers and ideas from that book, thanks. 

So here's my idea for how Force Users would select their powers - first off all powers would be available at level 1 (with a few class specific exceptions like Force Healing being avaliable only to the leader class for example). So at 1st level you pick your first power(s), and every level you would gain a power, you pick a new one, and they level up with the character so nothing becomes obsolete. To me force powers are not meant to become obsolete and are meant to grow with the force user as they become more powerful in the force.  

For example - 
Spoiler: Show

Force Push                             
Fluff here
At-Will
Standard Action           Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6+ Wisdom modifier damage and the target is knocked prone.
            Level X: Increases in damage and effect (like pushing the target a number of squares) as  
                           character gains levels
 
Force 1
Close Burst 2
Target: All enemies in burst
Hit: 2d6+ Wisdom modifier damage and the targets are knocked prone
            Level X: As above
 
Force 2
Area burst 2 within 10 squares
Target: All enemies in burst
Hit: 2d6+ Wisdom modifier damage and the targets are knocked prone
            Level X: As above
 

The Force 1 and 2 are meant to allow the force user to use Force Points to augment the power the same way PPs are used for psionic powers. It just makes sense to me for force powers to use a similar mechanic instead of the Use the Force mechanic in SAGA since the augment fits the 4e style much better. Also, no this power isn't balanced per se, it's meant purely as an example.

Also to avoid confusion, I know that Force Points in SAGA were used to roll extra dice to help a d20 roll, but since 4e has no similar mechanic, Force Points will only be usable for force users. Force Actions will take the place of Action Points (but work exactly the same).
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 23, 2011 - 9:07AM #13
Krusk
Date Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 4,927

Armor - loads of people in the EU use it. The only place it isn't used is the main movies. The original series because the PCs came from a desert so they wore loose fitting robes. The sequals because "All jedi wear robes and thats their uniform now. See luke and obi wan did it". Even on the clone wars tv show jedi are wearing armor when actually on missions, going back to robes when hanging around the palace. It is really just the movies.


Weapon Damage - keep it in line with DND. HP is supposed to be abstract. Just explain that in this system there are a lot more parrys and missed blaster shots than traditional RPGs. The only shot that actually lands is the killing blow which cuts off an arm/leg/face.


I wouldn't even make lightsabers paticularly good in comparison to other weapons. Maybe a superior weapon that force users are automatically proficent in. Then have class abilities like "Use your lightsaber to redirect blaster fire" instead of making that a property of the weapon.


If you really don't want jedi in armor, let them add another ability score to their AC in addition to dex/int when not in armor to encourage this.

5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 24, 2011 - 4:26AM #14
Phantymwolf
Date Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 545
Actually Krusk, I can see Jedi in at the very least light armor, since they wore it during the Great Hyperspace War and the various wars with the Sith in the past. Obi-Wan even wore some light armor during the Clone Wars. As for lightsabers I figured they'd be a 1d8 versatile, off-hand weapon (since we see them used easily both in the off hand and in the double handed grip). The handles and the crystals would both supply properties to the weapon itself. The handles I could see providing bonuses to attack rolls while giving properties that would come form swinging the weapon, and the crystals provide bonuses to damage, while providing properties that modify damage (like fire, cold etc). Just some random thoughts there.     

Along with the equipment ideas, I'm figuring on using tech upgrades (scopes and enhanced energy packs for blasters, powered servos for armor etc) to work similar to magic properties for weapons and armor along with using the inherant bonuses optional rule. I am also thinking that different materials can provide different properties to equipment as well. 

I am thinking that things like Force Trance and some of the similar mediatative type powers would be similar to rituals maybe? I am also thinking about either giving extra healing surges to the classes since there is no Raise Dead in SW, though I could also allow that as long as the 'dead' body was put into a Bacta tank within a set amount of time they could be 'raised'.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2011 - 2:37AM #15
Phantymwolf
Date Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 545
Haven't had time of late to work on  the conversion stuff, between working on my D&D campaign and real life stuff. Hopefully soon I will have some free time to put some work into this. When I do I will start a new thread (with a link to this one) to use for the actual mechanical information, using this thread for everyone to continue throwing ideas around in. Just a heads up, yes I will be stealing existing powers from D&D and other sources, so don't be surprised if somethings looks familiar.  
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2011 - 2:16PM #16
Chandrak
  • Stampeding Hybrid
Date Joined: Aug 14, 2005
Posts: 862
I hope you realize what you're getting into ;P

Doing even a single full class is a lot of work if you want to make it good, and you're talking abotu needing a whole set of feats and paragon paths as well.

That said, if you're still going through with it, check out the The Old Republic website and check out the classes. Thatll help you out with ideas on what should/should not be permissible. That and using EU resources will go along way to making some classes that fill each role.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2011 - 4:30AM #17
Phantymwolf
Date Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 545
Edited addition - I apologize for the length of this post, but I've done a lot of thinking recently on this conversion and how to do things to give the game a SW feel rather than a D&D with an SW skin feel.  

Yep, I absolutely realize what I am getting myself into. I've already built a homebrew D&D setting, that started way back in 2e and never finished it until just recently for 4e (due to system changes. I'd get close and then, bam, new edition. 4e was the first system that made things really easy to make), with several new classes, paragon paths, and epic destinies as well as over 150 new feats that are specific to my setting (divided by region, race, and the like). No, none of them have been posted here due to my desire to keep things close to the vest in case WotC ever does one of those contests that got Eberron published.

Also keep in mind that I am only doing 20 levels, as I feel that Star Wars characters, even at their most powerful such as the Emperor or Yoda, or even Naga Sadow or Bastilla Shan were only ever at the peak of Paragon tier, but definetly not epic. Yoda as powerful as he was would not be able to challenge a god in his home domain if gods existed in SW, and that is what epic tier in D&D is all about, challenging gods and their minions.      

Anyway, I have full access to a ton of EU information, and though your suggestion of checking out the SWTOR site is a good one, I think that they are being far too restrictive on some things, like the fact that you are literally stuck with specific types of weapons based on your class. Jedi Guardians for example, can only use a single-bladed lightsaber, or two single-bladed lightsaber, based on their advanced class, but can never use a double-bladed saber, or even pull a sudden trick out of their hat and shoot a blaster. 

As an aside, that's the only thing that makes me hesitate about that game (and I've been watching it since it was announced years ago), is obvious lack of character customization, definition and flavor. I'm afraid it's going to be worse than WoW when it comes to end game and everyone looking the exact same, especially since they've already stated that they won't have appearance slots like so many other MMOs (EQ2, LotRO for example) have. I'll still buy it and play it to see and judge for myself, but with heavy reservations. 

Anyway, back from my derailing of my own thread there briefly, I have been talking to some of my friends who are very familiar with Star Wars, looking through various books and online resources (Wookieepedia rocks btw) and even been perusing through my FLGS' collection of old WEG SW books (he's asking quite a bit for them or I'd buy them). One of my friends is trying to borrow some SAGA books from a friend of his so I can reference them for feats, force powers and talents to convert into feats and powers. Was even looking at an old Star Wars Galaxies guide for ideas. 

At this point I know that I will have the SAGA classes in terms of Soldier, Scout, Noble, and Scoundrel. They've been staples of the game since the first d20 version of SW came out. I may add a Techie and a Medic class as well, just not 100% sure yet. I will have Jedi Guardian (Defender), Jedi Sentinel (Striker), Jedi Consular (Leader), and Jedi Sage (Controller). I may make builds that deviate from those roles though, as I do like the Essentials idea that a single class can cover multiple roles through different builds, despite my disliking of Essentials in general, there are some good ideas here and there. 

For the other force traditions like the Jensaari or the Baran Do Sages, I will be making several generic force using classes like Force Warrior, Force Adept, Force Sorcerer and the like. The classes will be fairly bare with a single power per level. In order to build one of those classes you will have to tack on what will amount to an extended theme (one for each tradition) that will add more powers to each level to choose from that will be available to that tradition only. 

Also as I already stated in one of my posts above, I will be making several universal powers that any force user can take at any given level, that will level with the character, so no matter when he takes it, it will still be relevant and useful. Alot of those will be the base powers that most force users seem to display, such as the general telekinetic powers, and the mind powers. 

I may even do the same with some of the powers for the non-force users. I would think that there are some techniques and such that are basic to the training of using certain weapons.  For example, to pull something from D&D - Cleave, the fighter At-Will exploit. It's basically swinging your weapon in a swath in front of you. To me it seems that a warlord, rogue, or a ranger could do that just as easily, so why don't they have access to it without taking a multi-class and a power swap feat? That's one of those powers that could be a universal power and be available to any martial class.

So more to the point for SW - you could take something like Pistol Whip as a power for anyone who has the Martial (to be renamed, something like Tech or the like, but it's any class that is not a force user) power source that is trained in the use of blaster pistols. It's just one of thso epowers that universally could be trained to anyone that has trained extensively with a blaster pistol. 

And no that isn't set in stone as a power, it was just an example to show what I am trying to come up with for the system. Thoughts?  
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2011 - 7:54AM #18
Papagiorgio
Date Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 36
Do you have any idea which races you would like to include?
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 04, 2011 - 12:21AM #19
Phantymwolf
Date Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 545
Some of the more recognizable ones for sure - human, wookiee, twi'lek, bothan, ithorian, mon calamarian, duros, rodian, chiss (highly recognizable after the popularity of the Zahn trilogy), devronian, sullustan, gungans, trandoshan, and zabrak to start, with others as they are desired by either the community or my own players. I would also like to possibly come up with a 'build your own' for near-humans and droids.  

I am shying away from ewoks because they have never made sense to me as to how or why they would be galavanting around the galaxy. The other race I am iffy on are the gamroeans (sic), as I really don't think they fit as an 'adventuring' race. I have never seen anyone play one of these races, excepting an ewok once, and that was as a joke character. They just don't fit the SW 'adventuring' group paradigm to me, and the only reason I think they made the cut in previous systems is because they have always been available, so tradition was being followed.      

Now I am more than willing to keep an open mind on the idea if someone can give me a good reason or example of one that they've seen played in a game in a memorable and successful fashion and not as a joke character.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 04, 2011 - 7:57AM #20
Krusk
Date Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 4,927
I would include gamoreans. They are are your generic big strong dumb race. Used as bodyguards for loads of villians, and are great cannon fodder style enemies. They work great for NPCs.

You could almost think of them as space orcs or trolls. (Trandoshans are more space hobgoblins.)

I honeslty think you should make 2 or 3 races, and then come up with guidelines for other races. Then tell your players "If you want another race, make it yourself, bring it to me, and we will write it down as official". That way you get the races people want, and don't have to write up 400+.

For what its worth, I usually play a kel-dor when I play start wars games.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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