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Jun 14, 2011 -- 4:28AM, Crimson_Concerto wrote:

EDIT: In case it's not clear, what I'm trying to say is that it's okay for the power to be complex as long as it is understandable enough. Complexity and understandability are not mutually exclusive ideas, so there are other ways to alter understandability without needing to alter complexity.

Maybe it would help if you could show me how you would do it?

Here's how I would approach the problem of gliding:

Glide
At-Will
No Action, Personal
Trigger: You fall at least 2 squares.
Effect: You take no damage from the fall. For each square that you fall, you may fall diagonally (one square downward and one square horizontally) instead of directly downward. You must land on a square no farther than your move speed from the square you fell from.

This allows genasi to traverse short distances as they fall safely, and even tumble around small obstacles as they do so, without permitting them to accelerate excessively when falling off high points, so you can't trivially build some kind of dive-bomb genasi who climbs trees and jumps onto anyone on the battlefield.

Oct 27, 2011 -- 2:18PM, Crimson_Concerto wrote:

Oct 27, 2011 -- 1:00PM, willows wrote:

No Action

The problem with making it No Action is that then characters can use it while they're stunned, unconscious, petrified, etc., which makes little to no sense.

Refluff it as "you're lightweight" and it's fine.

The problem with this is that it simply allows for too much movement. If I fall 20 squares, then I also get 20 squares of horizontal movement, it doesn't cost me a single action, and I still somehow have no ability to hover. This is simple, yes, but it's also much more mechanically and thematically questionable. This was the problem with the Winged Bracers.

Actually that is a wording problem on my part, combined with your entirely ignoring the last sentence of the power. The last sentence should read, "The horizontal distance between the square you fell from and the landing square cannot be greater than your speed." It intentionally permits you to flutter haphazardly in a narrow vertical column (which you could reduce farther by, say, defining a Burst n that limits the landing square instead) as long as you don't exceed some speed.

I'm not entirely convinced that it's more thematically questionable than providing the ability to hover, which is a lot more difficult than gliding, and I'm certainly not convinced that this approach is less mechanically questionable than the bizarre and obviously confusing timing shenanigans you suggested.

Then logically the power would have to be no better than a free action or immediate reaction. I suppose you could make it as some sort of off-turn move power, though that strains my imagination on how to not make that complicated.

Also, it could allow you to suffer no falling damage for distances up to your speed and damage resistance or half damage to falling for distances greater than your speed.

As for the horizontal movement I feel it is allowable if there is a limit put to how far you can go in relation to your falling speed. I think that moving up to half your speed horizontally for distances equal to your speed vertically could be more reasonable, plus this doesn't have to be an at-will power or feature. Limits, limits, limits,... either that or it's written to be a very minor thing with little mechanical impact.

Hmmm...this pseudo-flight is a bit of a headache. Let me try to take another crack at it. I figure it might turn out differently than what you are aiming for, but at least I won't have to read a mini-wall of text to understand it.

Glide (Air-Soul Genasi Racial Power)
At-Will
♦ Immediate Reaction         Personal
  Trigger: You fall.
  Effect: Reduce the distance fallen that is used to determine falling damage by your speed. You may make a saving throw to stop falling. If you succeed you descend 100 feet (10 squares) and then hover until the start of your next turn.
♦ Free Action                       Personal
  Prerequisite: You fall 5 or more squares during your turn.
  Effect: Reduce the distance fallen that is used to determine falling damage by your speed. In addition, you gain a fly speed equal to your speed while you are falling until the end of your turn. You may not use your fly speed to halt or reverse your fall.
  Special: You can use this power once per round. This power immediately ends if you stop falling or are knocked prone.


So...what do you think?

Oct 27, 2011 -- 3:29PM, Mythril_Sage wrote:

Then logically the power would have to be no better than a free action or immediate reaction. I suppose you could make it as some sort of off-turn move power, though that strains my imagination on how to not make that complicated.

Completely agreed. However, immediate causes issues in that it's not usable on your own turn and some other issues about using it otherwise. It's really not powerful enough that I think that it needs to be so limited.

Also, it could allow you to suffer no falling damage for distances up to your speed and damage resistance or half damage to falling for distances greater than your speed.

I honestly don't see why not just go ahead and let it negate all damage, though. Being able to negate all falling damage while able to take actions is not that big a deal of a racial ability.

As for the horizontal movement I feel it is allowable if there is a limit put to how far you can go in relation to your falling speed.

Absolutely. That's why I limited it based on the character's speed.

I think that moving up to half your speed horizontally for distances equal to your speed vertically could be more reasonable...

That seems like far too little to me, though. That barely feels like gliding to me at all.

...plus this doesn't have to be an at-will power or feature.

Yes, it does. That's the whole point of it. If it's not at-will, then the Air-Soul already has an appropriate encounter power allowing it to fly. The whole point of doing this is to offer a form of at-will flight.

... either that or it's written to be a very minor thing with little mechanical impact.

That's what I've been going for.

Glide (Air-Soul Genasi Racial Power)
At-Will
♦ Immediate Reaction         Personal
  Trigger: You fall.
  Effect: Reduce the distance fallen that is used to determine falling damage by your speed. You may make a saving throw to stop falling. If you succeed you descend 100 feet (10 squares) and then hover until the start of your next turn.

This may have less text, but I'm not sure what it does. It has the immediate action issue I was talking about before... I'm not sure what the first sentence says or why the power shouldn't just go ahead and negate all falling damage if it's supposed to be simpler... 100 feet is 20 squares (5 feet = 1 square)... And "hover" doesn't mean anything in game terms that would be applicable here.

♦ Free Action                       Personal
  Prerequisite: You fall 5 or more squares during your turn.
  Effect: Reduce the distance fallen that is used to determine falling damage by your speed. In addition, you gain a fly speed equal to your speed while you are falling until the end of your turn. You may not use your fly speed to halt or reverse your fall.

So if I fall 4 squares on my turn then I'm stuck with the damage but if I fall 4 squares not on my turn then I'm not? That seems rather arbitrary... I really don't know what this does with the "flying while you are falling" thing. That doesn't mean anything in game terms, and it's difficult to decipher what you're trying to say actually happens mechanically...

Special: You can use this power once per round. This power immediately ends if you stop falling or are knocked prone.

I don't understand why this is limited to being used once per round. In fact, that seems very detrimental during a long fall because the character would be able to fly on their own turn with the second part of the power but then not be able to do anything about the remainder of the fall? And why can the character stop the fall not on their turn but not on their turn?

So...what do you think?

I don't understand it at all. Again, less text doesn't not mean simpler. Yeah, I understand that the way my version of the power works is really complicated, but it took a lot of effort to get it working even that well. This is not something that's going to be so trivially easy to simplify further, at least not without making substancial mechanical or thematic concessions that would either strain credibility or defeat the purpose of having the power to begin with.

Oct 27, 2011 -- 3:43PM, Mythril_Sage wrote:

Hmm...check out Gaseous Form in the compendium or MM if you can for the Air genasi... it has some interesting implecations if you want to use that for the subrace.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Also, I'd really to hear what you thought of my rewrite of the Ignite power into a more organized power block. Did you like it?

Let's see...

Oct 21, 2011 -- 9:57AM, Mythril_Sage wrote:

Ignite
At-Will ♦ (Fire or Evocation?)
Minor Action              Personal
Effect: You shed dim light up to 2 squares, bright light up to 5 squares, or bright light up to 10 squares.
Special: You can cease to shed light with this power as a free action. Otherwise it lasts either until you use this power again or until you fall unconscious. While you are shedding light with this power you may use the following actions.
♦ Minor Action            Touch
  Requirement: You are shedding dim light with this power.
  Target: One unattended object.
  Effect: You warm the target or instantly ignite it, causing it to catch fire.
♦ Minor Action            Ranged 5
  Requirement: You are shedding bright light with this power.
  Target: One unattended flammable object.
  Effect: You instantly ignite the target, causing it to catch fire.

I already mentioned the issue with the keywords... I personally don't like the language "shedding like with this power" and much prefer "shedding light as a result of this power" because it's more specific, but that may just be me... If you're going to do this and want it to function identically to the original, then the second one should be "Close burst 5", not "Ranged 5", so as not to provoke opportunity attacks... There seems to be a lot of superfluous text in the effects lines, like "you warm the target", and I'm not sure why... However, I do like your use of "unattended object" as opposed to "object that is not carried by another creature".

Oct 28, 2011 -- 1:39PM, willows wrote:

Maybe consider writing up your Glide as a two-part power with Free and Immediate Action components, each of which governs how the power behaves during those parts of the round.

I will not write any part of it as an immediate action of any kind; there is no good reason to, and I have no idea why anybody is suggesting it at all. I can easily write it out as a series of different free actions, but I did already try doing that (read the first page of the thread) before and people complained that there was no need for it to be different things and that they could be condensed into the same thing. There's no pleasing you people.

Glide (Air-Soul Genasi Racial Power)
At-Will
Free Action, Personal
Special: This power can be used in three different ways.
Trigger: You fall at least 2 squares.
Effect: You take no damage from the fall.
If you use this power not on your turn and fall at least 5 squares, then you can choose to stop falling. You resume falling immediately after the start of your next turn. You also resume falling if you are stunned or if you fall prone, as though you were flying.
If you use this power on your turn and fall at least 5 squares, then you can choose to stop falling and gain a fly speed equal to your speed until the end of your turn (you resume falling immediately after the end of your turn). However, this flight cannot take you upward, and if you fly upward before the end of your turn (such as by using your Wind-Walk power), then you lose this flight and cannot use this power to stop falling until after you have landed or until the end of your turn (though you can still use it to not take damage from a fall).
Special: Unlike other free actions, this power can be used at the start of your turn or at the end of your turn. If you use this power at the start of your turn, then you treat it as having been used during your turn. If you use this power at the end of your turn, then you treat it as having been used not on your turn.

Honestly, reading over it again, it just doesn't seem that complicated, just long. All that changing its formatting would do would make it slightly less intimidating maybe, but the actual mechanics wouldn't need to change at all for that. Here are some possibilities:

Glide (Air-Soul Genasi Racial Power)
At-Will
Free Action, Personal
Trigger: You fall at least 2 squares.
Effect: You take no damage from the fall. If you fall at least 5 squares, then you can choose to stop falling, and this power has additional effects:
* If you use this power not on your turn, then you resume falling immediately after the start of your next turn. You also resume falling if you are stunned or if you fall prone, as though you were flying.
* If you use this power on your turn, then then you gain a fly speed equal to your speed until the end of your turn, and you resume falling immediately after the end of your turn. This flight cannot take you upward, and if you fly upward before the end of your turn (such as by using your Wind-Walk power), then you lose this flight and cannot use this power to stop falling until after you have landed or until the end of your turn (though you can still use it to not take damage from a fall).
Special: Unlike other free actions, this power can be used at the start of your turn or at the end of your turn. If you use this power at the start of your turn, then you treat it as having been used on your turn. If you use this power at the end of your turn, then you treat it as having been used not on your turn.

Separated out a bit further...

Glide (Air-Soul Genasi Racial Power)
At-Will
Free Action, Personal
Special: This power can be used in three different ways:
* Trigger: You fall at least 2 squares.
* Effect: You take no damage from the fall.
* Trigger: Not on your turn (or at the end of your turn), you fall at least 5 squares.
* Effect: You can choose to stop falling. You resume falling immediately after the start of your next turn. You also resume falling if you are stunned or if you fall prone, as though you were flying.
* Special: Unlike other free actions, this power can be used during the end of your turn.
* Trigger: On your turn (or at the start of your turn), you fall at least 5 squares.
* Effect: You can choose to stop falling and gain a fly speed equal to your speed until the end of your turn. This flight cannot take you upward, and if you fly upward before the end of your turn (such as by using your Wind-Walk power), then you lose this flight and cannot use this power to stop falling again until after you have landed or until the end of your turn (though you can still use it to not take damage from a fall). You resume falling immediately after the end of your turn.
* Special: Unlike other free actions, this power can be used during the start of your turn.