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2 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2011 - 1:31PM
#31
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Is that it, you may be asking yourself? Is that all there is? Not even close.
Might want to rephrase this. It sounds like you "need" to buy all that stuff. Perhaps something like...
"That gives you enough to play for years. But what if you want more? More fantastic creatures to fight? More Races or Classes to be? More treasure to find? More locations to explore? Well, we've got more."
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 17, 2011 - 9:52AM
#32
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2003
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Great to see a post like this in the absolute right location - the 4e General Forum! Well done! I recently wrote a similar, briefer article on my D&D blog for new and returning players and playgroups: New Players and Playgroups: What to Buy
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2 years ago ::
Jun 17, 2011 - 1:47PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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If you don't want this to be an edition war, you'll have to stake out a more neutral position.
Essentials is not the only on-ramp to D&D. It may the current 'official,' one, but starting with the core rules, is equally legitimate - and arguably superior in some ways. If someone already has the PH, or is starting with the quick start rather than Red Box, continuing on to core, rather than diving off into Essentials is likely a better move.
It may seem 'confusing' to present both paths, but people do come here saying "I have the PH1 what else do I need?" Telling such people that they 'need' HotFL or HotFK is doing them a diservice.
Edit: Also, nothing to do with the Edition war, but D&D Encounters probably belongs much higher up the list. You don't need /any/ books to show up at a table, get a pre-gen and get introduced to the game. Probably right up there with the Red Box and Quickstart Rules.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 6:48AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2011
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So i've been looking for a while now at starting up a DnD group, but Im at a lose for what equipment I would need to buy. I'll Im really looking for are the rules for playing (combat, exploration, etc...) and character building information for some simple classes. I bought the red box thinking it had a full version of the player handbook, so now I need rules and level up info.
So my question is, what is the difference between the Player Handbooks, and the DnD Essentials lineup in terms of which has the information neccesairy to play and progress at a feasable cost?
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 7:02AM
#35
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2010
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Check post #29... and #1. And #32. ^_^
Jackonomicon™ It's not always safe for work, but it's great for play. It's my blog, yo.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 7:11AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2011
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I did, but Im stil a bit confused. So, the two seperate product lines are basically the same info granted in two different ways? So the information the the Player Handbook is the same as that in the rules compendium and the Heroes of books?
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 7:18AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2010
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I did, but Im stil a bit confused. So, the two seperate product lines are basically the same info granted in two different ways? So the information the the Player Handbook is the same as that in the rules compendium and the Heroes of books?
Yes and no. (And I can see why that's confusing.)
Basic rules for general play: The same between both books--Heroes have some updated/clarified versions of some rules, but so does the Rules Compendium.
Basic rules for character creation: Close on the races, vastly different on most of the classes. PHBs contain classes that are highly customizable, but a little more complex to build. I think that both PHB 1&2 contain more races/classes per book than the Heroes books, but I may be wrong on that--I don't have my library with me to check at the moment. Essentials contains magic classes that aren't much simpler than the PHB versions, but martial classes that are incredibly simple, but also have a lot fewer customization options.
PHB 1/2/3 all contain very different information, with 1 being the book with base rules, and 2&3 adding extra races and classes, and many extra character options.
Heroes of the FK/FL contain different races and classes, but the entirety of the rest of the book is quite literally a page-for-page reprint of the other.
Jackonomicon™ It's not always safe for work, but it's great for play. It's my blog, yo.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 7:26AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2011
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So, as far as rules go, I could buy eigther the Player Handbook or Rules Compendium and still be able to play just fine, with the only difference being I would have to buy a heroes book for class building to supplement the Rules Compendium?
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 8:08AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2010
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Actually, you could buy a PHB or a heroes book and play. I recommend the Rules Compendium for either one.
PHB 1 OR Heroes of the FL/FK
DMG 1 OR DM's Kit
MM 1/2/3 OR Monster Vault
Or you can buy all of the above and more. It's up to you.
As far as price goes, The heroes books are pretty cheap, the DM's Kit and Monster Vault are not as cheap, but not expensive for what you get.
You can also get the sets of the PHB/MM1/DMG1 in one box cheaper than buying the books individually.
Jackonomicon™ It's not always safe for work, but it's great for play. It's my blog, yo.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2011 - 8:15AM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2011
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That clears it up. Thanks a ton!
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