I realize that these questions are exactly what this thread was created to address, but it gets confusing very quickly when I start to look at essential vs core rule books, etc.
It bascily comes down to a style difference. Essentials being more streamlined at the cost of customability,
class balance, and consistency...
and the core being more customizabe, but requiring more effort to make.
You make the same number of choices in core with any class - slightly fewer than with an Essentials Mage, for perspective. Essentials if more varied, Mages have a lot of choice, warpriests less, martial classes a lot less, and everyone else somewhere in between. In 4e all classes are created equal, so you can play whatever concept you want, rather than having to restrict your choice based on how much customizeability (and abuseability) you want.
It looks like the best way to go is simply to pick up the starter kit. Is this true? Will it be necessary for us to buy any other books before we can begin?
The second cheapest option is to buy the starter kit (aka Red Box), which also gives you dice, hero and monster tokens, maps, and two adventures. Note that the first adventure in the Red Box should probably not be counted as an adventure. It is more of a series of loosely structured encounters that help you create a character and learn the basic game mechanics. This is written as a solo adventure, so each player in your group will have to go through it by him- or herself. Unfortunately, this portion of the Red Box is marred by poor editing and a bunch of errors. The second adventure is designed for a party of level 1 adventurers and one dungeon master, and is more of a traditional dungeon romp.
A problem with the Red Box, is that it was developed before the Essentials rules were finalized, so many things that exist in the Red Box don't exist in the game you will transition to after starting. But you can re-create your characters using the Essentials rules (or the core 4e rules) afterwards, or adapt them, or simply create new characters after you are done with the Red Box. Even if you use the quick start rules from the link above, you will note that some of the rules have changed.
When you are ready to invest more money, I would recommend the Essentials products Heroes of Forgotten Lands, Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms, the Rules Compendium, and the Monster Vault (if you need tokens), and one subscription to Dungeons & Dragons Insider (DDi). The latter will give you access to the Character Builder, which makes it very easy to build new characters, and the Compendium, which has all monsters, treasures, and other game features.
New to 4e and am looking to get started with a game/campaign. Last time I DMed was 3.5 working with Heroes of Horror, but that's been awhile. I've done some GMing for other games since then, but 4e D&D seems like it has more potential of getting up and running in a short amount of time (I'm pretty sure the last game I ran had the players spending one session just creating characters...oy).
First thing is, after looking into a bit, I want to get the DM Kit. It has a screen, some tokens, some maps, and a decent-sounding adventure. What I can't determine is what sort of rules are in the DM Kit. I'm sure I need more than just that to get started, but I'm not sure what I need.
What's going to be most useful to get in conjunction with the DM Kit? The Rules Compendium doesn't seem to get too deep into character creation, and I'm sure there's some overlap with the DM Kit. At the same time, while the Heroes of _____ books seem to cover races and classes well, are there any other gaps that they're missing?
I'm going to have to order the books online, since the only ones in stock around here are rather...well-used. I've gotten so many mixed reviews of the various products that I'm not sure where to start (Note: We've all done some RPing before, so I don't want to bore everyone with the Red Box). I know I want to pick up the DM Kit, so it's just a matter of finding what's going to be most useful as an add-on to that.
The DM's Kit plus either of the Heroes of books will be enough to get you started.
When you've got the hang of and start making your own adventures, be sure to pick up the Monster Vault for lots more critters and tokens, as well as adventures that follow up on the adventures in the DM's Kit.
The Rules Compendium is a super handy reference at the table for both you, the DM, and your players.
Quentin Small WotC Online Community Coordinator All around helpful simian
4e D&D seems like it has more potential of getting up and running in a short amount of time.
Yep, it does make the DMs job a lot easier, though that's been changing, a bit, in the later stuff, including the DM kit...
First thing is, after looking into a bit, I want to get the DM Kit. It has a screen, some tokens, some maps, and a decent-sounding adventure. What I can't determine is what sort of rules are in the DM Kit. I'm sure I need more than just that to get started, but I'm not sure what I need.
The 4e line has split, with Core (Player Handbook, DM Guide, Monster Manual) on one side, and Essentials on the other. They're nominally compatible, and probably the /best/ way to get started is to use some of each.
As a general rule, the DM stuff from Essentials is better, and the player's stuff from Core is better.
More specifically, the Monster Vault is great, with challenging, well-developed monsters, tokens for said monsters, and a mini-adventure. The DM Kit also has those nice extras, but introduces some changes to the handling of magic items that make the DMs life harder, as well as some refinements to skill challenges that make those more functional. The Player's Handbook, though there's a lot of bits of errata out for it, is a very good and complete resource for players. It also includes the Core aproach to magic items (limited use of item dailies/no 'rarity'), and a selection of mostly pretty safe (with errata) items to give out.
So, that's maybe the ideal: Monster Vault, DM Kit, and PH. Let the players build from the PH, and use the magic item rules from there. Everything else you need, including two adventures, is in the DMK and MV.
Great! Thanks folks. I'll put in an order for my DM Kit and one of the Heroes of books for my own reference and let the players decide if they want the PHB as well (that one's plentiful enough in stores for us to have no trouble finding it in a pinch).
The Monster Vault was definitely on my list for second tier purchasing - those tokens are going to be a godsend, I can tell (far, far less miniature-buying and painting for this guy).
As for the Heroes of books, any recommendations on where to start? Were I playing instead of DMing, I'd lean towards Forgotten Kingdoms as it covers the races and classes I'm more prone to playing, but Fallen Lands seems to cover the more "iconic" options. I know the girls in the group are more likely to aim for magic-using characters, so would Fallen Lands be better if I'm trying to keep the session cheap and cheerful?
Okay then, I'm looking to get into 4th Edition. The question is, what books should/shouldn't I get?
To clarify: I'm planning on DMing some games once I get ahold of the system, so I had already planned on getting the trifecta of Player's Handbook, DMG, and Monster Manual. Then I noticed that both the DMG and Monster Manual had special "kits" available for sale: the DMG had the Dungeon Master's Kit, and the Monster Manual had the Monster Vault. Are these straight-up improvements to the original books? Should I even bother getting the original books when these products are available?
In addition to this, there are several other questions I've got. I had planned on getting the 2nd Player's Handbook, as it featured some stuff that was apparently missing from the first book, as well as the third Monster Manual, which is supposed to be really good. However, the third player's handbook looks like it's not my thing... except for the updated hybrid class rules. Are these rules worth getting the whole book over? Keep in mind that I don't really plan on using any of the other content (minotaurs and psychic stuff? Odd mix) so I'd be getting the book for just those rules.
Speaking of Rules, the Rules Compendium. I've heard many people sing its praises, but I'd like a more detailed explanation about why I should get it. Is it just a REALLY good rule guide? Can people pass on it if they're familiar enough with jury-rigging rules to the situation at hand?
Lastly, there's the issue of the Heroes books and the power expansion books (Arcane Power, Primal Power, etc.) I'd like some opinions about which ones are more "essential" than others. I plan on getting both Heroes books at some point, but which one should I get first if I had to choose? I also heard rumors that Arcane Power is especially useful because mage-types apparently suffer from a lack of options in the default books: is this true?
Okay then, I'm looking to get into 4th Edition. The question is, what books should/shouldn't I get?
To clarify: I'm planning on DMing some games once I get ahold of the system, so I had already planned on getting the trifecta of Player's Handbook, DMG, and Monster Manual. Then I noticed that both the DMG and Monster Manual had special "kits" available for sale: the DMG had the Dungeon Master's Kit, and the Monster Manual had the Monster Vault. Are these straight-up improvements to the original books? Should I even bother getting the original books when these products are available?
Pretty nearly, yes. The Monster Vault doesn't have quite as many monsters, but they're mechanically more up to date, and you get an adventure, map, and counters for all the monsters, so you don't need a huge collection of monster minis, and don't find yourself resorting to 'this d12 is a dragon..' so much.
The DM Kit, likewise, includes a bonus adventure, poster map for it, and some tokens. It has /most/ of the information that the DMG has, and some of it is more up-to-date. It also makes a few substantive changes to the game relative to the DMG that make some extra work for the DM, maybe leave a few pitfalls that mightn't otherwise be there. If you already have the DMG, you can always ignore them... if you don't, getting both would be redundant. It's not a big deal, either way. You should be fine either way.
In addition to this, there are several other questions I've got. I had planned on getting the 2nd Player's Handbook, as it featured some stuff that was apparently missing from the first book, as well as the third Monster Manual, which is supposed to be really good.
The MM3 is good, as is the Monster Vault - they're the recent ones. The MM3 is just a book, though, and MV has more 'classic' and heroic-level monsters, good for starting up a campaign.
However, the third player's handbook looks like it's not my thing... except for the updated hybrid class rules. Are these rules worth getting the whole book over?
Not really. The classes and races in PH3 are all pretty marginal.
Speaking of Rules, the Rules Compendium. I've heard many people sing its praises, but I'd like a more detailed explanation about why I should get it. Is it just a REALLY good rule guide? Can people pass on it if they're familiar enough with jury-rigging rules to the situation at hand?
Yes, it's just a handy reference book. You can pass on it if you're good at picking up rules and don't need to look 'em up often, or if you plan to have the PH and DMG/Kit at the table every session.
Lastly, there's the issue of the Heroes books and the power expansion books (Arcane Power, Primal Power, etc.) I'd like some opinions about which ones are more "essential" than others.
Powers books are good, if you want to expand the given source involved. The first three 'Heroes of...' books are pretty aweful. The first two re-tread existing classes in less balanced, less consistent, ways - some are pretty awesome (broken) some are pretty crappy. The third, HoS, is just aweful, badly done from cover to cover, no redeeming value. They really hit their stride on the fourth one, though - so hopefully that line will continue to get better going forwad - Heroes of the Feywild has new builds (sub-classes) that don't just re-do existing concepts with poorly thought-out mechanics, some good stuff for existing races, a few themes and the like... races aren't so stellar, two unremarkable, one broken (pixie - though it'd be find once your campaign is out of heroic, in the heroic tier it's just asking for trouble).
I also heard rumors that Arcane Power is especially useful because mage-types apparently suffer from a lack of options in the default books: is this true?
No. Not even a little. It does have some feats that can stack up some fair damage bonuses, and the new (and classic) spells in it are nice (only a few really broken or useless ones).
I Googled the basics on Core and Essential 4th edition and I have to admit that it's still a bit puzzling. The original purpose for Essentials seems to have been to simplify an already "simple" game (by D&D terms) yet the write up goes on to say that the Essential's line went on to revise Core rules and update various aspects.
I suppose my question is if Core is still being published or is it ALL Essential now...thus making Essential "Core"?
