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2 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2011 - 8:05AM
#1
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Alright, so I've been gaming for...er...well let's say that I'd be a neurosurgeon if I had spent as much time studying as I've spent playing this blessed game. Anyway, my point is, I'm no newbie. And for the majority of the time I've been playing, I've been DMing. But for the first time ever, I personally have a group that cannot focus to save their lives (literally -- I've already logged several legitimate kills because they're just not paying attention to what's going on in the battle, e.g. that the party thief is standing RIGHT IN FRONT OF A PORTAL WITH DEMONS REACHING FROM THE OTHER SIDE!). Anywho, the players start talking about all kinds of crap during melee: the newest mini at the table, some new DnD book a member of the group has purchased, etc. Now, I understand that this stuff happens at every table to a certain extent, but it's gotten so bad that we'll only get through an encounter or two every 4-5 hours. It drives me as a DM to sheer boredom and insanity. I have considered that we have 6-7 players, so they might be getting bored between turns, as well, but I'm hesitant to turn anyone away. No one seems to have their planned attack teed up when it's their turn, I have to manage the initiative keeper CONSTANTLY, and someone is always looking at their power cards adding up their bonuses as if it's the first time they've ever played. It's driving me nuts, so I'm taking it to the Forums - HELP ME!!!!!
I spoke with my bro last night and he mentioned a few ideas he's used with his group in Utah to do everything from keeping players on their toes to making them extremely paranoid. For example, he once had a PC's pack get hit by a curse that made it continually spew out random objects (a chair here, a goblin there, a hundreds of rubber balls once a day, etc.). These are the kinds of ideas I'm looking for, but specifically for combat encounters. When offering suggestions, please keep in mind that the group's ADD presents itself primarily in a combat/melee encounter.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2011 - 8:14AM
#2
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I cannot recommend your brother's techniques; what you have is an out-of-game situation, which cannot, CAN NOT be solved by doing this to their in-game characters.
First, you need to talk to your players and tell them that their lack of attention to the game itself is bothering you and making it less fun for you. Not in an accusatory tone, not angrily, just tell them "Guys ... we really need to focus more on the game. We don't get anythign done, it takes forever to wind up a fight."
All you can really do is encourage them to prep. Ask them to pay attention between turns so they know who's where when their turn comes around, ask them to use that between-turns time to plan their moves, and have everybody write down all their bonuses BEFORE the game so the math is all done beforehand.
Also, I recommend scheduling some time at the start of the get-together to catch up on the week's goings-on and news and to socialize, and perhaps another break in the middle of the game for same, as well as for some players to go to the bathroom or refresh drinks and such.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2011 - 8:40AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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Make your own personal notes of their attack bonuses (which should be pretty much the same for all the attacks of a given character) and defenses and tell them all they need to give you is the d20 result. Then you can be the one to tell them that they hit or missed, or were hit or were missed. That won't fix everything, but it will reduce some of the paper shuffling.
When you let them know whose turn it is, let them know who is "on deck," and keep one eye on that player. You could even say that if a player doesn't have their attack ready when it's their turn, they get to make a basic attack, but that might just make them resentful.
Players not giving the same weight to imaginary events as the DM describing them, is a classic problem. Aim for better descriptions, if you can, but I don't see a much better way to handle it. If they're a younger group, take heart in the potential for them to focus more as they mature.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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2 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2011 - 8:54AM
#4
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How bad of an idea is a timer? Like that hour glass thing I have floating around from my board games?
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2 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2011 - 9:04AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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How bad of an idea is a timer? Like that hour glass thing I have floating around from my board games?
Only that those kinds of timers are hard to reset. But a timer in general is not a bad idea. If the DM judges that you haven't made a a focused effort toward completing your turn by the time it goes off, you make a basic attack and move on. I've heard of people doing this, with some success.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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2 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2011 - 12:44PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 18, 2007
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How bad of an idea is a timer? Like that hour glass thing I have floating around from my board games?
A timer that I use is my hand flashing a big 5-4-3-2-1 in their face. They have that long to start telling me what they are doing or else they delay their turn. They don't lose it, but I move on to the next player until they figure out what they are doing. I don't always remember to do this, but it definitely helps the ADD type players pay attention. The bad news is that it requires a bit of paperwork reshuffling unless you are using combat management software like DM battle screen (Which I highly recommend, precisely for this purpose). I generally also give a heads up to who is on deck when a player starts their turn.
This strategy works on multiple levels, since it keeps the game going, rewards players who are paying attention, and doesn't punish players in a way they might resent you (they still get their turn and often times they will actually put more thought into it). Salla's advice for the other aspects is good and you should follow it as well.
Now this next piece of advice is highly situational on your group dynamics, but in my campaign there is a player who is the de facto party leader and I use him as a go between for me and the rest of the party. In situations in which initiative hasn't been rolled yet or even during combat when a major decision needs to be made, I will address him and him alone, and let him seek out the advice of the other players and give general direction for what the party does next.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2011 - 1:55PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2007
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While I try to avoid the use of timers as much as possible, it sounds like it would really keep things moving in your game sessions. You should start tracking initative yourself behind the DM screen. If you want you can also use a Red and Blue Poker chip. Red to the person who's turn it is and Blue for the person who knows they are on deck. The players now have a physical activity they have to keep track of that prevents them from handling other things and let's them know where they are in the turn order.
Use a stopwatch or other such timer. Most cell phones have a timer function somewhere in their tool set. Give the player a minute to complete their turn action, or to be making their move. Don't be a jerk about enforcing this, but do enforce it. If they haven't selected their action and are executing it in under a minute, they delay and you move to the next player. If they end up delaying the full round they take no action for that round and combat moves on. An example of not being a jerk, if a player 'On deck' has selected their powers and is all set to go and the acting player does something that now makes the 'On deck' player have to rethink their move, be a little leniant with the timer. I'd consider having the timer behind my DM screen, so I'm the only one who really knows how long anyone is taking.
Have them roll their attack dice and their combat dice together, this will also speed up combat.
If combat is moving faster they will have less time to wander off and do other things or allow other destractions to creep in. I'm sure you're doing it already anyway, but try to keep other destractions off the table. As a side note, let the group play catch-up for the first few minutes before game, and also take breaks during game to get snacks, bathroom etc. They can hopefully get some of the side conversations and stuff done during break time, if they don't then just politely ask them "Hey, we're running something important, can we save the side chatter for another 20 minutes and then we'll take a break?"
It takes some practice to get in the habit of keeping attention, this goes for any subject or topic, even things we enjoy.
Tolkein was a jerk. Seriously, what DM sends 9 Wraith Lords at a Lvl 2 party of Halflings.
The only 'correct' way to play D&D is by whatever method is making the group you have at that session, have the most fun.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 09, 2011 - 7:51AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2007
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Table talk is a natural and desireable aspect of a social game, such as D&D. However, it can get out of hand, as it looks like is happening in your game.
I've had the same problem sometimes in my game, and I go with a "lighter touch" approach than others have recommended. Specifically, if it looks like the conversation is side-tracking the game, I'll jump into it for a little bit, and then use my magic word: "Anyway . . ." to shift it back to the game.
Does this mean that the game gets side tracked more than I would like? Yes, it does. But the fact is that one can never really know how things will play out when you start a "We need to talk . . ." conversation. So if you can avoid it and still mostly solve the problem, I would.
Of the other suggestions that I've seen, allowing social time before the game and during breaks, having people roll attack and damage together, doing the math before hand, and letting people know when they are up next are all good ways to speed things up. The timer thing is bit extreme, so I would only suggest that as a last resort: it will breed resentment.
Although this is not an option available to you right now, you should consider nudging your players towards the martial classes from Essentials for future characters. Because those characters have a more limited range of options each turn, they can help reduce decision paralysis.
Understand that not all players are going to have the type of attention span that you would like, and that to a certain extent that is something that is a part of that person's nature-you need to find ways to accomodate that without making them feel defensive about something they may not be able to control.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2011 - 11:29PM
#9
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Tricky situation and there are not any really easy ways out here is what i do with my group. First when the show up around 5 oclock i usually have food finishing up, (I'm a chef and i make food every week). The foor gives up a nice way to gather at the table talk about where we are in the session and start the game slowly. Next if people are dragging combat I will make bad things happen, IE if your not going to worrk about the rolling ball of doom coming down the hall, start taking damage, not saying kill them but usually that helps keep things moving. This may not work with your group if they are as bad as your rogue however. Also i recently had a player and ex DM who started using folded note cards with our names lines up as initiative trackers THEY REALLY HELPED i cannot explain how much difference they made. I now even incorperated them into my gaming table.  If a player does not keep up in thier initiative And it becomes an Issue i personally would skip them. The game will go quicker if they want to continue playing and it just might be motivational to miss a round of combat or drop back in initiative order until they say something. (like "Hey i haven't gone yet and that goblin is hitting me a 5th time wtf") I gaurantee the palidin in my game does not spend time playing pac man on his phone anymore.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2011 - 5:30AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2010
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I definitely agree with Salla and Barvas here. They've said the majority of what I would recommend.
Here's yet another option that might work: Make combat more engaging. (Just to be clear: I am in no way implying that you aren't already doing this.)
You can do this a number of ways: 1) Roleplay in the encounter. Whether it's intelligent creatures condescending to them in a fight or creatures making snarls and mad lunges toward their characters, they pretty much have to pay attention. This gets them invested in the encounter.
2) Add in-depth descriptions to get their imagination running. "The beast's rotten teeth tear into your flesh. Your blood begins to run down your arm."
3) Shock value! If the fight opens up with an explosion (metaphorically although literally works too) or something dramatic happens a few turns in, they'll be all ears.
4) Mystery. Adding cryptic events or clues to something much larger whether it be in or out of an encounter will definitely get them curious.
5) Ask questions. If they're not actively paying attention and it's their turn then simply ask them, "What is Melira doing?" You want to make sure to use their character's name in most instances. They have to react and respond if you're actively asking them what's going on.
There are plenty of other ways but I hope this helps.
allgeeksrejoice.comCheck out my site for all things geek: D&D, MTG, Anime, Video Games, and more.
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