As mentioned in the title, this group will be 5 players new to 4E or table top gaming in general, and I'll be a newbie gm with a very small bit of table top experience. We'll be running the premade H1 to H3 adventures to start. That said, aside from the obvious adventure kits, what do we need?
I'm assuming the players handbook of course, but what about DM guide and Rules Compendium? Is the DM guide needed if I'm not making the adventure? I'm asking that on the assumption that the adventure kit is complete in that regard instead of just saying "See book X for info." What is in the rules compendium that isn't in the other books?
Of course watch them decide on doing gamma world, which I have alreadt. Thanks for any help, though.
I actually do not recommend buying the PHBI anymore, because significant portions of the rules have been updated since it came out, and the essentials Heroes of...books are cheaper and have the most up-to-date rules. I would recommend players get one of the two Heroes of X books, and if you are going to be using pregenerated adventures, that you pick up the Rules compendium. You will eventually want a DM resource so you can create adventures of your own, I would get the DM Kit, which I think is a better monetary value than the DMG. Both products cost about the same, but in the DM Kit, you get a book, a screen, an adventure, fold-out maps, and two sheets of monster tokens. I'd then recommend picking up the Monster Vault, which has updated versions of the MMI monsters as well as an adventure, fold up map, and several sheets of monster tokens.
H1 has a starter rules booklet, but it has numerous errors and many of the rules were changed after it went to print. There is an updated version available for free download elsewhere on the WoC site, I recommend downloading that rather than buying it.
Alternately, consider picking up the Red Box, which has everything you and your players need to play through level two. Character sheets, dice, an introductory booklet, a simplified rules booklet for the DM, and an adventure with a map. It's an inexpensive and easy way to get started fast.
PHB1, DMG1, and MM1 is your original classic 4e core book set.
HotFL/HotFK, DM's Kit, Monster Vault are the roughly equivalent Essentials products.
Note that all of this stuff is compatible, and you don't strictly need a monster book to play published encounters, they have all the required stat blocks. Also MM1 is a bit long in the tooth, you might just want to go with MV even if you use PHB1 and DMG1. MV and DM's Kit both include adventures as well (they are boxed sets). These are a bit more polished than the H1-3 series, though they only cover low heroic tier, so you may want to have the H series modules anyway.
I would say you probably DO want a DMG1 or DM's Kit. You can probably get by without, but the HotF* books don't delve into all the rules. If you have DM's Kit + HotF* you have all the newest rules. If you have PHB1 and DMG1 you might want to pick up a Rules Compendium as it does have somewhat updated rules. You could alternately download the update documents from the main D&D site.
Mostly just remember, PHB1-3 etc are compatible with Essentials stuff, you can play classes from either series of books together with no problem, the rules are the same, monsters are the same, etc. So there's no issue if you end up with some mix of books and characters at the table, in general.
As mentioned in the title, this group will be 5 players new to 4E or table top gaming in general, and I'll be a newbie gm with a very small bit of table top experience. We'll be running the premade H1 to H3 adventures to start. That said, aside from the obvious adventure kits, what do we need? I'm assuming the players handbook of course, but what about DM guide and Rules Compendium? Is the DM guide needed if I'm not making the adventure? I'm asking that on the assumption that the adventure kit is complete in that regard instead of just saying "See book X for info." What is in the rules compendium that isn't in the other books? Of course watch them decide on doing gamma world, which I have alreadt. Thanks for any help, though.
If you're getting the Player's Handbook and DM's Guide the Rules Compendium is superflous (but a handy up-to-date reference).
The game has recently bifurcated into two parallel, compatible, lines. D&D, and D&D Essentials.
Dungeon Master's Guide 1 (DMG 2 optional, but nice to have)
Any one or more monster books. Monster Manual 1, 2, or 3, Open Grave, etc... or a published adventure like H1-3 (which has all the monster stats for that adventure)
Using Essentials Products you'll need:
Rules Compendium
One of the two "Heroes of..." books (the other optional)
DM's Kit
Monster Vault (DM's Kit and Monster Vault actually come with mini-adventures - and cardboard tokens to use instead of minis)
You can also mix & match, for instance, using the Monster Vault vs PH1 player characters is possible, a little hard on them, perhaps, but possible. Using MM1 monsters vs anything-goes PCs is possible, if not quite as challenging.
The way the content of core D&D vs D&D Essentials breaks out is something like this:
PH1 ~= Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms + Heroes of the Fallen Land + Rules Compendium (and you still don't have feats or very many magic items).
DMG1 + an adventure + some minis, (you're short some magic items) ~= DM Kit + RC
MM1 + an adventure + some minis, (monsters do less damage, solo & elite defenses too high) ~= Monster Vault (monsters do more damage, solos are nastier but die faster).
We'll be running the premade H1 to H3 adventures to start.
I know that you didn't really put this up for debate, but unless there's a pressing need to use this material (like you already own the adventures or something) I seriously suggest you don't start with these. They haven't aged well.
I suggest The Slaying Stone followed by Reavers of Harkenwold (available in the Essentials DM Kit). These are both fantastic adventures.
If you must use the H series, I suggest the following tweaks:
H1: First off, use the updated adventure published on this site for free. Not only is it free, it has the treasure updated to post release standards. I would look into modifying the IronTooth encounter if you can. There's a TPK in there if the second fight gets triggered early. Finally, I would look into introducing Kalrael (is that his name? I can't remember atm) earlier than he is (the updated version has him come in a little early but you may want to ham it up a little).
H2: I will say that H2 is a pretty good adventure but you will probably want to modify the maps a bit (the parts where battles take place can get really cramped). Also, really play up exploring the labyrinth. Allow the party to get lost and describe a lost world. It really makes the module when you do that. As with H1, it's a good idea to try and introduce the big bad early (I completely spaced on that dude's name).
H3: This one could go either way. I hated it with a passion but I had a pretty terrible DM at the time. I think the key here is to really play up the different factions in the pyramid and allow the players to parlay and make deals. Anything to reduce the grind in this dungeon. When I went through it the DM just had everyone attack us on site. It bogged down faster than I could cry "Uncle!"
Again, I know that you didn't really ask for adventure advise, but I really wished I had someone to help me work the kinks out of these things when I first ran them as a new DM.
I'm not set on H1 to H3. I just selected those because they provide adventure for 1 to 10. The consistent supply of material is the most important goal here. I'm not concerned with the time to remake / modify maps. Infact, given the years of various war gaming experience I have, I'm confident that I can make them interesting as well and I'm creatively capable enough in that manner to do it in decent time. But I don't have the time or the experience is making plot, encounters, setting or mashing the provided setting together. Not for a good while. I'm not afraid of tying various adventure kits together. Making a hook I can do. It's just the providing the whole plot stuff... Not so much.
Dungeon Master's Guide 1 (DMG 2 optional, but nice to have)
Any one or more monster books. Monster Manual 1, 2, or 3, Open Grave, etc... or a published adventure like H1-3 (which has all the monster stats for that adventure)
Using Essentials Products you'll need:
Rules Compendium
One of the two "Heroes of..." books (the other optional)
DM's Kit
Monster Vault (DM's Kit and Monster Vault actually come with mini-adventures - and cardboard tokens to use instead of minis)
Now, here's where I'm a bit confused.
If I go the older route, with the PHB1, I know where all the basic class stuff comes in.
If I go the Essentials route, grabbing Heroes of the Stuff book or books, and the DM Kit, where is in the info for the basic class stuff at? Is it in the DM Kit, or do the Heroes of Stuff books have that information recycled into it?
You can also mix & match, for instance, using the Monster Vault vs PH1 player characters is possible, a little hard on them, perhaps, but possible. Using MM1 monsters vs anything-goes PCs is possible, if not quite as challenging.
The way the content of core D&D vs D&D Essentials breaks out is something like this:
PH1 ~= Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms + Heroes of the Fallen Land + Rules Compendium (and you still don't have feats or very many magic items).
DMG1 + an adventure + some minis, (you're short some magic items) ~= DM Kit + RC
MM1 + an adventure + some minis, (monsters do less damage, solo & elite defenses too high) ~= Monster Vault (monsters do more damage, solos are nastier but die faster).
Wait, so if I go the essentials route, my players doing have feats, without getting the PH1 book as well? From what I've played in 3.5, that seems like a pretty vital thing to not have.
And I'll get back to adventures shortly, but first I want to figure out how the Essentials route covers all the bases. I'm sure that it does, I'm just a bit confused as to where what get's covered. I was under the impression that the Heroes books were expansions on stuff, either adding in new classes/races/etc or adding addition stuff to existing classes/races/etc.
Sorry if I seem lost. My experience is in about half a year of 3.5 where the DM and 2 of the party players had literally every book printed. So it was such an overflow of information, outside of the PHB1 and the stuff for the campaign we were running, I just nodded when they said X was legal for me to do. The other experience is Gamma World, where I did the intro adventure, and everything there is to the game exists in the first two books (up to that point in time, anyways. This was before the final installment came out) So, having two compatible, parallel routes on D&D is leaving me a bit confused as to what comes from where.
I'm liking the Essentials line more, from what I understand. Just, like I said, I'm missing where the basic stuff comes from.
To run an essentials game, you really only need two books (plus adventures): The DM Kit and either of the Heroes of... books. The Heroes of... books contain identical rules text and only vary in the races/classes they provide. They do have feats in them (though there are a lot more in the earlier books).
The DM Kit is reprinted info from the DMG1 and 2. If you have both of those books then you don't need the DM Kit. But I bought it anyway for the (rad) adventure and the poster map/tokens it has in it. If you don't own the DMGs, it's probably worth it to pick up the Kit.
The Rules Compendium is really just a quick reference book. It doesn't have anything unique in it except a lot of examples of rules interractions and a good index. I've found it invaluable at the table and it's low price point makes it a good buy. But it's not required at all.
To a degree, yes. I have exactly 0 4e stuff, so it sounds like no matter what, the DM Kit is the way to go. The Rules Comp does sound handy, put like that. (I often bought starter sets of 40k, as well as the big rule book, simply because the little pocket sized rule book was insanely handy in being portable, but mostly because it was easier to navigate quickly without all the fluff.)
Still a bit confused about the Characters, though. From what I understand, for example, Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms has the five classes and the six races. If we decide to go with the DM Kit and HotForgotten Kingdoms, then without other books, my players only have those five classes to be, since that's all we have rules for? From what I'm seeing at the review I've read at Points of Light, this means that if I have someone who wanted to be a rogue, fighter or cleric or one of the more traditional fantasy races is out of luck. That's where I feel like I'm not reading my information right. Or is all that basic stuff in there in the DM Kit book? From what I can find, without going and pirating a pdf, it isn't.
Again, apologies for being so clueless about this. I just don't want to pick up books only to find out that the entire book is replaced by another book I've already picked up.
Get both Heroes of... books, the Rules Compendium and the DM Kit. You will then have all the necessities to play D&D 4th Edition. If you can order them from Amazon you will pay about the same price for all 4 items as you would pay for 1 of the older books. You're new, you don't need every option under the sun. You and your players will have more fun right out of the gate with these books and once some game mastery is attained aquire more books for more options. Besides all the older books are slowly being obsoleted by errata, rules updates and new releases.
My suggestion is DM Kit, Monster Vault and the Players Compendium. You can pretty much skip all the character books and Players Handbooks if you have a DDI account and the advantage their is that your players don't have to read as much. Since I got my DDI account I haven't openned a players handbook or character book, in fact they don't even make it into my bag when I travel to game sessions. Everything a player needs is on his character sheet and the only rules reference you will need is the players compendium. The DM guide is handy for the GM and the Monster Vault takes care of naturally monsters (aka creating your own adventures) but as mentioned published adventures always have all the monsters listed. The nice thing about getting this setup is that you also get 2 adventures one of which is a two part adventure that takes you to about level 5 with all the tokens and maps you need to run them. I think for new players this is the best setup, from that you will have everything you "need" to play and you can start thinking about what things you "want".
