I was looking at some of the MM races, and I think we can expand them a bit, don't you? Are there any homebrewed racial feats, updates, fixes or paragon paths for the orc? If not, can we make some?!
Post links, feat suggestions, paragon path ideas and, if you feel like it, a full paragon path based on the orc.
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This is what we got so far (as of 4th of june, 2011), what racial features we're keeping and which one we aren't is still unsure to me, i'll be posting them all here. Call it "display mode", if you will.
Ability scores: +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom or +2 Charisma Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, Giant Skills: +2 Endurance, +2 Intimidate Ferocity: You do not take a penalty to attack rolls for being prone or restrained. In addition, at the start of your turn, you can make a saving throw against each effect currently rendering you weakened. If you fail the saving throw you do not make a saving throw against the effect at the end of your turn. Combat Sprint: You gain a +2 bonus to speed when running or charging. Blood Lust: The first time you deal damage in an encounter, you gain 5 temporary hit points. The temporary hit points increase to 10 at 11th level and to 15 at 21st level.
Warrior's Surge
Orc Racial Power
A roar, an attack, with bestial vigor you keep fighting for as long as you have to.
EncounterHealing
Free Action - Personal
Trigger: You target an enemy with an at-will power.
Effect: If the triggering attack hits you can spend a healing surge to regain hit points equal to your healing surge value.
- - Orc Weapon Training Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc Benefit: You gain proficiency with all simple and military spears. You gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with spears. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level.
Fearsome Surge Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge, each enemy adjacent to you is marked until the end of your next turn.
Mass Surge Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power Benefit: When you use you warrior's surge, one ally within 5 squares of you gains temporary 5 hit points. The temporary hit points increase to 10 at 11th level and 15 at 21st level.
Ruthless Surge Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power. Benefit: When you use your Warrior's surge, the at-will gains the rattling and invigorating keywords.
Improved Surge Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power Benefit: When you successfully use your Warrior's Surge racial power you regain extra hit points equal to the higher of your Wisdom or Charisma modifier.
Nameless Feat Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Sureg racial power Benefit: When the attack triggering your Warrior's Surge racial power misses you still regain hit points equal to the higher of your wisdom or charisma modifier.
Nameless Feat Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power. Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge, one ally within 5 squares of you gains a +1 power bonus to his next attack roll and a +2 power bonus to his next damage roll before the end of his next turn.
Unstoppable Warrior Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power Benefit: When you use your warrior's surge to spend a healing surge you can forgo regaing hit points and instead end any ongoing damage or any dazed, slowed or weakened condition currently affecting you.
Nameless Feat Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to speed and attack rolls while bloodied.
Furious Dash Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc Benefit: You do not take the normal attack roll penalties from taking the run action.
Blood Fury Heroic Tier Prerequisites: Orc Benefit: The first time you deal damage in an encounter you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.
Improved Blood Lust Heroic Tier Prerequisites: Orc Benefit: You gain 5 extra temporary hit points from your Blood Lust racial feature.
Berserker's Wind Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc Benefit: The first time you deal damage after using you second wind in an encounter you gain temporary hit points equal to the temporary hit points granted by your Blood Lust racial feature.
Roar of the Horde Heroic Tier Prerequisite: Orc, Warrior's Surge racial power Benefit: When you use you warrior's surge, each ally within 5 squares of you gains a +1 power bonus to his or her attack rolls until the end of your next turn.
Ok let's fix it first since it's a MM write up and not a PC write up.
I'm seeing +2 Str, +2 Con or Wis, because orc culture rewards those stats, idolizes the classes that use them, and because frankly dex, cha, and int really don't fit.
All right let's see here... Both the existing racial feature and the existing racial power are far too class- and role-specific to make for a good PC race, but we can make some modifications to them and maybe add in a few extras. The difficult part is probably going to be making them substantially different from Half-Orcs. Here's my attempt at an Orc race...
ORC
Average Height: 6'0" - 6'5" Average Weight: 200 lb. - 230 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength and either +2 Constitution or +2 Charisma Size: Medium Speed: 6 Squares Vision: Low-Light
Languages: Common, Giant Skills: +2 Endurance, +2 Intimidate Ferocity: You do not take a penalty to attack rolls for being prone or restrained. When you are weakened, you deal two-thirds damage instead of half damage. Orc Fury: If you selected to gain a +2 racial bonus to Constitution instead of Charisma, then you gain a +1 racial bonus to your Will Defense. Running Charge: You gain the running charge power. Warrior's Surge: You gain the warrior's surge power.
Running Charge (Orc Racial Power) Encounter Free Action, Personal Trigger: You take an action that allows you to move a number of squares based on your speed. (This includes the charge, crawl, run, squeeze, and walk actions, among others.) Effect: You gain a +2 bonus to your speed for the duration of the action.
Warrior's Surge (Orc Racial Power) Encounter * Healing Free Action, Personal Trigger: Immediately before you make an attack roll with an at-will attack power. Effect: If that attack roll hits its target, then you can spend a healing surge.
I decided on CHA over DEX because I thought that DEX was just make it too similar to the Half-Orc. CHA may seem weird at first to some people who associate it most with Attractiveness or Diplomacy, but remember that Intimidate is also based off of CHA and that a Barbarian build is as well. I can see an argument for WIS too, but it's just so overdone.
I selected the skill bonuses simply by checking the Monster Manual entry for Orcs. Almost all of the Orcs seems to have listed skill bonuses to Endurance and Intimidate, so it seemed like the logical choice. This is unfortunately identical to the Half-Orc skill bonuses, but as long as we can make the rest of the race different enough, that won't be too big of a problem.
Ferocity is the only "original" feature in the race. I have a bunch of random racial feature concepts stockpiled, and this one seemed appropriate enough.
Orc Fury exists to mitigate the problem that a STR/CON Orc will be behind on defenses compared to a STR/CHA Orc. Basically, it's there for the same reason that the original Warforged got a Will defense bonus while the original Dragonborn did not.
Now, I know what you're thinking: "Two racial encounter powers? That's ridiculous!" Actually, it's really not that bad. Many races have racial features that are basically used once per encounter in addition to their racial encounter power. Heck, the Half-Orc itself is a fine example of this. It really makes no difference whether the feature is actually formatted as a power or not. I simply decided to format this feature as a power because I thought that it would be easier to express this way. As you have probably guessed, Running Charge is based on the feature that the Orcs have in the Monster Manual by the same name. The significant difference here is that it has been made usable by all classes and roles. As a result, it even has expanded uses for weapon-using, STR-primary, melee classes and roles, the only classes and roles that could use the original version of the feature.
And finally, the "real" racial encounter power has been modified so that it can be better utilized by members of any class or role, regardless of accessory, range, or primary attack stat. Again, this has even resulted in expanded utility for members of weapon-using, STR-primary, melee classes and roles.
Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha
Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further.
Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I selected the skill bonuses simply by checking the Monster Manual entry for Orcs. Almost all of the Orcs seems to have listed skill bonuses to Endurance and Intimidate, so it seemed like the logical choice. This is unfortunately identical to the Half-Orc skill bonuses, but as long as we can make the rest of the race different enough, that won't be too big of a problem.
I like everything but this. I see Half-Orcs getting Intimidate because they are savy enough with social situations to flex their scary muscles- but orcs aren't. Orcs are brutes, and don't need the Intimidate bonus (think of Andrea the giant- huge dude, but surprisingly non-threatening, unless he wanted to be). Athletics + Endurance seems like a more fitting bonus for a race that solves all of their situations with brute strength.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
I totally disagree. In fact, Intimidate was the no-brainer for me, not Endurance. I was originally going to do Athletics and Intimidate before checking out the Monster Manual entries. Orcs are scary, plain and simple, and I see no reason to believe they aren't smart enough to know that and to exploit that. A character with an INT of 6 would be smart enough to realize that the very visible threat of violence implied by flexing some muscle gets stuff done.
Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha
Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further.
Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
To non-orcs? Sure they're scary, and they probably know they should show off their teeth and flex. But in orc culture I don't know that they do alot of communicating that doesn't involve an actual physical contest. I'm no expert though, and am basing this just on my experience with orcs in (just) 4th ed. Plus (and I think most importantly, design wise), Athletics + Endurance isn't covered by halfoOrcs, goliaths, minotaurs, muls, or warforged. Which gives the orcs a bit more of a unique design space (I'm aware Longtooth Shifters have those same skill bonuses) and reinforces the idea that these guys are brutes.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
Orcs are actually quite religious, and all the orc spellcasters you'll find are primal spellcaster that use WIS as their primary. What does STR/CHA give use when it comes to choosing classes? Warlords, Weaponmasters? And STR/WIS? Rangers, Seekers? If we look at the classes the attributes go with we can easily see what attributes we want to use. Like rampant said, their culter and class selection does imply STR CON/WIS or CON STR/WIS.
"When you are weakened, you deal two-thirds damage instead of half damage." is a nice feature but not very traditional. The rest of the Ferocity feature is nice though.
Change Running Charge into a feature, even though you simply picked the "Power Format" it's still not traditional. Running Charge: Once per encounter you can make a move action with a +2 bonus to speed.
html_removed Warrior's Surge Orc Racial Power Encounter · Healing Free Action Personal Trigger: You make an attack roll. Effect: If the attacks hits you can spend a healing surge.
This can be modified into "You gain a +2 power bonus to the attack roll html_removed and you can spend a healing surge if the attack hits. (wording based on Thief's "Backstab")
To non-orcs? Sure they're scary, and they probably know they should show off their teeth and flex.
Exactly. All racial statistics are what you get what you compare a race to other races. Orcs don't get +2 STR because their strong compared to other Orcs. That don't make any sense. They get +2 STR because they're strong compared to other races. Likewise, Orcs ore are more intimidating than other races, and so they should get an bonus to Intimidate. You might say the same thing about Athletics, but I think that's only imagined because of the STR bonus to begin with. Beyond being stronger than other races as a base, I don't see any further reason to assume they're as Athletic as, say, Goliath or Shifter.
But in orc culture I don't know that they do alot of communicating that doesn't involve an actual physical contest.
There are no cultures that operate like that, fantasy or otherwise. Cultures that operate only through physical contest are not advanced enough to be considered cultures or even higher animals.
Orcs are actually quite religious, and all the orc spellcasters you'll find are primal spellcaster that use WIS as their primary. What does STR/CHA give use when it comes to choosing classes? Warlords, Weaponmasters? And STR/WIS? Rangers, Seekers? If we look at the classes the attributes go with we can easily see what attributes we want to use.
I do and always have disagreed with this method of deciding on ability score bonuses. I'm of the opinion that racial ability score bonuses need first and foremost to make sense in the context of comparing a race to other races, not in the context of comparing a race to desirable classes. If we did that, Dwarves would originally have been STR/CON and Tieflings would have been CON/INT, neither of which make as much thematic sense as what they actually had. It doesn't matter because Dwarves operate fantastically as Fighters, Tieflings operate fantastically as Infernal Warlocks, and a STR//CON/CHA Orc would operate fantastically as a Shaman.
Besides, even if you do look at it from a class perspective, STR/CHA has a lot to offer. It would make them fantastic Warlords, the leader class that best fits their flavor, it would make them wonderful Paladins, the only Divine class I see them fitting into very well anyway, and it would expand their versatility significantly in the class that they were and always have been made for: Barbarian.
Like I said, though, I can see the argument for WIS. But I think that if they get WIS, then they definitely NEED to get the Intimidate bonus.
"When you are weakened, you deal two-thirds damage instead of half damage." is a nice feature but not very traditional. Change Running Charge into a feature, even though you simply picked the "Power Format" it's still not traditional.
Contrary to popular belief, I don't mind if something isn't traditional. If a race isn't going to offer something new, then what's the point?
Running Charge: Once per encounter you can make a move action with a +2 bonus to speed.
This doesn't at all do the same thing as the power. For one, it don't allow the bonus to apply to a charge attack, which entirely negates the point of modeling it after (or calling it) Running Charge to begin with. It's difficult to model that identical mechanical effect with a non-power, but what you have there is objectively inferior, power-wise. If you really want to try to twist the same effect into a non-power, it would look something like...
Running Charge: Once per encounter when you take an action that allows you to move a number of squares based on your speed (this includes the charge, crawl, run, squeeze, and walk actions, among others), you gain a +2 bonus to your speed for the duration of the action.
. . . Which I guess isn't actually that bad, come to think of it. The only problem is that it leads to some action confusion.
Warrior's Surge Orc Racial Power Encounter · Healing Free Action Personal Trigger: You make an attack roll. Effect: If the attacks hits you can spend a healing surge.
This is far too strong. Although it pigeon-holed the Orc to an unacceptable degree, the original racial power in the Monster Manual was actually more or less balanced. My version of it was actually already an upgrade, but what you have here is just far too powerful. The reason that I did the trigger the way that I did was because otherwise you could use this power after you already know what you've rolled. In other words, you could simply wait until you roll pretty high on the D20 and basically know that you're going to hit for a garunteed healing surge, which is far more powerful than what the original power allowed. Furthermore, notice that the way that the power originally works, it's pretty much just a melee basic attack without the healing surge thing. I already gave it an upgrade by allowing it to work with at-will attack powers (a necessary upgrade so that implement-users could also benefit), but allowing this effect to apply to powers even more powerful than that is just overboard.
As for racial feats, those should always be worked on after the base racial stat block is completed so that you know everything that you have to work with.
Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha
Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further.
Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
To non-orcs? Sure they're scary, and they probably know they should show off their teeth and flex.
Exactly. All racial statistics are what you get what you compare a race to other races. Orcs don't get +2 STR because their strong compared to other Orcs. That don't make any sense. They get +2 STR because they're strong compared to other races. Likewise, Orcs ore are more intimidating than other races, and so they should get an bonus to Intimidate. You might say the same thing about Athletics, but I think that's only imagined because of the STR bonus to begin with. Beyond being stronger than other races as a base, I don't see any further reason to assume they're as Athletic as, say, Goliath or Shifter.
Ehh, yeah. What I mean is that the orcs don't practice Intimidate amongst eachother since they fight everything out. Races with the Intimidate bonus are either naturally frightening and unique (e.g. dragonborn, who look like dragons, and warforged, who are frickin' robots) or practice Intimidate all the time (e.g. drow). Not as Athletic as goliaths or shifters? They live in the same places, and literally spend their entire lives in a constant state of physical training or stress.
But in orc culture I don't know that they do alot of communicating that doesn't involve an actual physical contest.
There are no cultures that operate like that, fantasy or otherwise. Cultures that operate only through physical contest are not advanced enough to be considered cultures or even higher animals.
Orcs are described as being too lazy to manage anything other than simple stone and metalwork. And I never said they operate only through physical contest, I said they don't do alot of communication that doesn't involve physical contest. Orcs settle conflict with fights, or tests of strength, not words (harsh or otherwise).
All of the fluff aside, the only race that gets Athletics and Endurance isn't a "brute" race, like orcs (and goliaths, warforged, and muls), and there are already 3 races with Endurance and Intimidate (including the half-orc). The design space is there to be filled, and the orcs are the perfect race for it.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
> Ferocity: You do not take a penalty to attack rolls for being prone or > restrained. When you are weakened, you deal two-thirds damage instead of half > damage.
Theme-wise, restrained makes some sense but prone is a little more difficult to picture. It's also such a common condition that I'd be wary of negating the penalty automatically.
In the case of Weakened, figuring 2/3 is more work than 1/2 and there's nothing else that uses 2/3 like that. I'd be more inclined to borrow what the Kalashtar (IIRC) had: you can save against weakened at the start of your turn rather than at the end of your turn; if that's not quite enough then allow the save to be made even when the condition doesn't normally allow it (like Superior Will vs Dazed).
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> Running Charge: You gain the running charge power.
This seems kind of clumsy, and it doesn't really have anything to do with charging.
I'd be more inclined to give them something similar to one of the HoFL feats: When a combat encounter begins, you gain a +2 bonus to speed during your first turn.
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> Warrior's Surge: You gain the warrior's surge power.
I'd be more inclined to make this reliable but circumstantial. IE:
Warrior's Surge (Orc Racial Power) Encounter * Healing Free Action * Personal Trigger: While bloodied, you reduce a nonminion enemy to 0 HP. Effect: You spend a healing surge.
This also gives it a clearer theme: an orc is reinvigorated when he brings down a (nontrivial) adversary.
