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2 years ago ::
May 18, 2011 - 12:12PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2011
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Does a character need to be proficient with an implement (holy symbol, tome, orb, wand etc) to gain benefits of:
Properties?
At-Will powers?
Encounter powers?
Daily powers?
I know that unlike weapons, implements don't grant enchantment bonus when you're not proficient, but what about the other stuff?
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2 years ago ::
May 18, 2011 - 12:38PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2001
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RC p. 283: "Because an adventurer must have proficiency with an implement to use it, an adventurer cannot gain an implement's enhancement bonus or benefit from any of the implement's other characteristics (such as properties, powers, and critical hit effects) unless he or she has proficiency with the implement."
So you can't use any of the things you've listed without proficiency with the implement.
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2 years ago ::
May 18, 2011 - 12:47PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2011
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Guess I need to invest in Rules Compendium... PHB doesn't cut it anymore.
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2 years ago ::
May 18, 2011 - 1:11PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2001
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Guess I need to invest in Rules Compendium... PHB doesn't cut it anymore.
While the PHB doesn't list this as a general rule for implements, every entry on magic implements in Chapter 7 spells this out, too; for instance, under Holy Symbols on p. 236: "If you are a member of a class that can use a holy symbol as an implement, you can apply the enhancement bonus of a holy symbol to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of any of your powers from that class that have the implement keyword, and you can use a holy symbol’s properties and powers. Members of other classes gain no benefit from wearing or holding a holy symbol." Something similar is written under Staff, Rod, Wand, and Orb. So the basic rule's been in place since PHB, just not written out in a general way like RC has it.
That said, RC is definitely worth it. It's much easier to quickly answer a rules question with RC.
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2 years ago ::
May 18, 2011 - 2:03PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2011
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PHB didn't specify item powers in any way, and left ambiguous is not a good thing.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 9:22PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2012
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What would be the case without having the implement keyword with your attacks or at-wills but still having the Holy Symbol profeciency? Such as with a blackgaurd? Would it mean you can still use the associated property or power but can not use the enhancement bonus to attacks or at-wills?
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7 months ago ::
Nov 09, 2012 - 12:54AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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Yes. If you have implement proficiency, but no implement powers, you can use the powers and properties of implements, but not use the enhancement bonus to any effect, because you don't have any powers with the implement keyword. If you were to gain powers with the implement keyword (by multiclassing or taking an implement Paragon Path, for instance, or in the case of a Blackguard, picking an implement daily power), you would be able to use any implement with which you are proficient (the holy symbol, in the blackguard's case) as an implement with its enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls as normal.
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