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2 years ago ::
May 14, 2011 - 4:07PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2008
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At level 1, the difference in the damage potential here is 7+([miss chance] times (1W+mods)/2), which is 7+(.3*(1d10+4)/2) and comes out to about 8.4 damage. To account for the larger burst area, take the number of additional enemies you can target in a burst 2 than a burst 1, (approximately 1 more) multiply that by your hit chance times 1W+mods, and subtract that from the difference in average damage, which translates to just .7*(1d10+4) and equals about 6.65. The difference in damage, then, is the increase in damage potential minus the damage potential you lose by targetting one fewer enemy, or 8.4-6.65, or 1.75 damage. Guaranteed forced movement in an AoE with a moveable zone of difficult terrain is not worth an average of 1.75 extra damage at level one. Shards gives up any semblance of control in exchange for an utterly insignificant increase in damage. Oh, and credit goes to RuinsFate on finding the quote. 
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2 years ago ::
May 14, 2011 - 4:21PM
#52
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Shards sucks quite badly and is appropriately rated red. Never take it.
Bats is rated as highly as it is because the control is actually pretty decent. It's not a great power (since it's useless in encounters where it can't chokepoint the map), but in the right situation it goes a long way towards winning the fight, which makes it a legitimately good control daily.
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2 years ago ::
May 14, 2011 - 11:51PM
#53
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@WEC: only one more creature from burst 1 to burst 2 is a really low-end prediction... usually at least 2 should be more accurate, since the area is 2.7 times larger ^^
Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός
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2 years ago ::
May 15, 2011 - 6:59AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2008
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Thanks Naus. I was going for the worst-case scenario to avoid skewing the numbers to my side of the argument. If you allow the premise that you would use Swarming Bats when you can catch at least two additional enemies over a burst 1, then it actually does more damage on average.
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2 years ago ::
May 15, 2011 - 2:31PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Nov 26, 2008
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Arrows of Misfortune (D389) - Targets AC, Keywords Primal, Weapon. This works exactly like Persistent Arrow, a D1, except that you can affect two targets with it, and you get a double attack against each one, which is decent damage at least. Still, weak punishment that only protects two squares is pretty worthless, and the debuff on the secondary power is even less impressive.
To be fair, if you get both arrows beside each other, it's extraordinarily strong punishment, killing any target with insufficient damage or forced movement resistance.
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2 years ago ::
May 15, 2011 - 2:44PM
#56
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2008
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That's very true, Katsue, good catch. I'll note that potential in the power, but I don't want to improve the rating for that sake, for two reasons:
First, extremely strong punishment that only forbids two squares in limited circumstances is still bad.
Second, I think that auto-killing an enemy by sliding it back and forth between two Arrows of Misfortune is contrary to RAI, disingenuous, and, most importantly, likely to get veto'd by a DM.
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2 years ago ::
May 15, 2011 - 3:12PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Nov 26, 2008
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Actually, now that I look it again, the slide was removed for the compiled article, so it really is a pure damage power. Probably a better damage power than Triple Raptor Shot, assuming you can spare two Minor Actions, as you can use spend both of the arrows to attack the same target, but still.
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2 years ago ::
May 15, 2011 - 3:16PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Nov 26, 2008
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I see that all the Spiritbond riders were removed from the Compiled Class Acts: Seekers as well.
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2 years ago ::
May 15, 2011 - 3:21PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Nov 26, 2008
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Cordon of Thorns is potentially good if you have several allies with forced movement powers. Or, and this is pretty corner case, if you can add forced movement to a granted attack you can trigger it yourself.
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2 years ago ::
May 15, 2011 - 3:39PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2008
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Well, it does potentially deal a decent amount of damage, that is true. That doesn't make it good.
Thank you for the heads up on those stealth errata, by the way.
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