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2 years ago ::
May 11, 2011 - 9:16PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Apr 27, 2006
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The Dungeon Master Experience Constellation of Madnessby Chris Perkins My campaign is like a snow globe. Sometimes it needs a good shake. Talk about this column here.
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2 years ago ::
May 11, 2011 - 10:33PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2006
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It could have been better done by having the PCs confront Starlord Evendor and failing; thus bringing about the altered reality. Cause and affect. Instead you’ve basically screwed them and said everything you know to be true isn’t after 23 levels of play. The idea had merit, but could have been a lot better played on your part. Your way seemed petty. In an earlier article you discussed running a game as TV episodes, in many shows where episodes produced such effects the cast characters knew what happened, but not the supporting cast, and they had to find a way to set things straight. Example: The players have failed dismally scarcely making it to the Maelstrom alive after their defeat by Starlord Evendor. Even as the ship head to the Dragovar capital to seek the wise counsel of Lenkhor Krige, the fabled Dragon’s Eye rises. The journey takes weeks longer to complete, the Maelstrom seasoned captain is acting like a novice he claims the currents are not right and the winds blow wrong. Upon arrival the player’s know that something has gone terrible awry, the Dragovar capital rises high into the sky and strange ships flit amongst the soaring towers. They now know why it is called the constellation of madness, but undaunted they seek out the Shan Qabal and its powerful leading archmage. They are made to wait for an hour in a room comfortable conference hall filled with books and scrolls. They spent their time perusing the room and their discussing predicament. The languages of the books is unknown and will require a comprehend language spell, but one of the scrolls is they find turns out to be a map of the world; a map filled with great continents. Even as this is revealed to them the Archmage walks in…twice killed Hahrzan. He greets them disdain, but offers the service of the Shan Qabal, for the usually high tribute the sect now requires. The players quickly perceive that their one-time nemesis has no clue how they are. If they ask about Lenkhor Krige, they find that heroes had clashed with him on several occasions, eventually killing him. His body is now stuffed in the main trophy hall. Now the players have options; they can pay for the service of the sect seeking knowledge in the lore that it has, they can try to deal with the problem using Hahrzan knowledge - without telling him the whole truth, they can try to find the secret cloning lab in hopes that Lenkhor used such a ploy in this reality. What ever they do they will have to do it in this strange new world.
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2 years ago ::
May 12, 2011 - 12:14AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 22, 2007
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Different strokes, Morandir. What works for one group doesn't work for others, and sometimes the greatest fun is in torturing your players a bit by throwing situations at them they are beyond their control.
Also, you missed the plot arc where something bad happens and it's the PCs' job to figure out what and why and how to undo it.
I assume it's still early enough that the "stress cracks" between the old and new realities haven't begun showing themselves to the PCs yet, nor has the "remember it like it was" MacGuffin shown up yet. Give it time.
Also, Havoc, a question for you: Do you start these just because, or is it a Guide thing?
-m4ki; one down, one to go "Retro is not new. Retro-fit is not new." --Seeker95, on why I won't be playing DDN
| DDN Metrics (0-10) | enthusiasm: 1 | confidence in design: -3 | desire to play: 0 | Sticking with 4e?: Yep. | Better Options: IKRPG Mk II |
The Five Things D&D Next Absolutely Must Not Do:
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1. Imbalanced gameplay. Any and all characters must be able to contribute equally both in combat and out of combat at all levels of play. If the Fighters are linear and the Wizards quadratic, I walk. 2. Hardcore simulationist approach. D&D is a game about heroic fantasy. I'm weak and useless enough in real life; I play RPGs for a change of pace. If the only reason a rule exists is because "that's how it's supposed to be", I walk. I don't want a game that "simulates" real life, I want a game that simulates heroic fantasy. 3. Worshipping at false idols (AKA Sacred Cows). If the only reason a rule exists is "it's always been that way", I walk. Now to be clear, I have no problem with some things not changing; my issue is with retaining bad idea simply for the sake of nostalgia. 4. DM vs. players. If the game encourages "gotcha!" moments or treats the DM and players as enemies, adversaries, or problems to be overcome, I walk. 5. Rules for the sake of rules. The only thing I want rules for is the things I can't do sitting around a table with my friends. If the rules try to step on my ability to roleplay the character I want to roleplay, I walk. Furthermore, the rules serve to facilitate gameplay, not to simulate the world.
NOTE: Items in red have been violated. Chris Perkins' DM Survival Tips:
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1. When in doubt, wing it. 2. Keep the story moving. Go with the flow. 3. Sometimes things make the best characters. 4. Always give players lots of things to do. 5. Wherever possible, say ‘yes.’ 6. Cheating is largely unnecessary. 7. Don't be afraid to give the characters a fun new toy. 8. Don't get in the way of a good players exchange. 9. Avoid talking too much. 10. Save some details for later. 11. Be transparent. 12. Don't show all your cards.
Words to live by. Quotes From People Smarter Than Me:
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"Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging..." -Foxface on Essentials
"Servicing a diverse fan base with an RPG ruleset - far from being the mandate for 'open design space' and a cavalier attitude towards balance - requires creating a system that /works/, with minimal fuss, for a wide variety of play styles, not just from one group to the next, but at the same table." -Tony_Vargas on design
"Mearls' and Cook's stated intent to produce an edition that fans of all previous editions (and Pathfinder) will like more than their current favourite edition is laudable. But it is also, IMO, completely unrealistic. It's like people who pray for world peace: I might share their overall aims, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for them to succeed. When they talk in vague terms about what they'd like to do in this new edition, I mostly find myself thinking 'hey, that sounds cool, assuming they can pull it off', but almost every time they've said something specific about actual mechanics, I've found myself wincing and shaking my head in disbelief and/or disgust, either straight away or after thinking about the obvious implications for half a minute." -Duskweaver on D&D Next
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2 years ago ::
May 12, 2011 - 9:28AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2006
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[1] Different strokes, Morandir. What works for one group doesn't work for others, and sometimes the greatest fun is in torturing your players a bit by throwing situations at them they are beyond their control
[2] Also, you missed the plot arc where something bad happens and it's the PCs' job to figure out what and why and how to undo it.
[3] I assume it's still early enough that the "stress cracks" between the old and new realities haven't begun showing themselves to the PCs yet, nor has the "remember it like it was" MacGuffin shown up yet. Give it time.
[1] Torturing your players on a mad whim poses the greatest fun for the DM. However, torturing them, as a result of their failures within the story arc, is building off their foibles. Here are two examples of torture from my campaign that the players still talk and joke about four years later.
- A player severed the divine link between the gods and the clerics of the world. In some cases (NPCs) the severing caused death. Until it was restored there was no divine power to be had.
- In another they raised a recurring PC villain thought dead (for 10 RW years). This nemesis an exarch of Asmodeus [through story arc ] began his new reign of power immediately and the mid-heroic PCs were helpless to stop him.
[2] “Their only recourse is to accept this new reality… at least until their characters become aware that reality has been altered.” - C Perkins In most altered realities, if you were unaware of the change or could not prevent it, you are stuck within it helpless to affect a change. The only recurse Chris has left open is for the PC’s to have memories of a past that technically no longer exsists for them.
- This is similar to the Star Trek (reboot) where the crew know that reality has altered and what the lives may have been is now rendered mute by their inability to change it.
- In SG1 Season 8 episode "Moebius" [19-20] the team changes reality and relied on a videotap to repair it; but not aware of the “cause” of the change were unable to do so 100% effectively; at the end a fish jumps in O’Neill’s fishless pond.
MacGuffin
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a plot element that drives the plot of a work of fiction. Usually, the MacGuffin is the central focus of the film in the first act, and then declines in importance as the struggles and motivations of characters play out [3] In there should be no case the “stress cracks” reality was changed, there is no “old” and “new” realities, there is only reality and the PCs caught in the middle without a clue. The MacGuffin in this case should be immediately apperant as it will be the plot element driving the story arc to “the inevitable (and hopefully satisfying) confrontation with Starlord Evendor.” A better plot element should have been known to them for the start having them strive to correct their error.
- “A Sound of Thunder” by Ray Bradbury illustrates this change when a character notices subtle changes. English words are now spelled strangely, people behave differently, and, worst of all, Deutscher has won the election instead of Keith. But he knew ahead of time what could happen in a time-jump and frantically pleads to return into the past to undo the damage. But ends there in an ominous “sound of thunder”.
- The movie actually acts as a sequal of the book by following the characters through their attempts to fix things.
After "fully" reading this article I claimed it had merit, but it still fails. Even Chris states:
- “Even my Monday night players - expert roleplayers all - can accept only so much metagame torture before their heads leap off their shoulders and fly screaming about the room.”
- ” The jury’s still out on whether “Constellation of Madness” will go down as a high point of the Iomandra campaign or sink like a stone to the bottom of the Dragon Sea”
- He also issues a warning about being “careful not to turn the campaign into something unrecognizable or unfamiliar to your players. They’ve invested too much time in the world to watch it mutate into something bizarre and unrecognizable.”
To have both meaning and merit for the players [and PCs] they should have seen this coming. Knowing that they failed and only they could repair the damage would have made this challenging and exciting for them (even if being tortured) and would have erased items 1-3 above.
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2 years ago ::
May 12, 2011 - 9:31AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2008
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Are you seriously backseat DMing Chris Perkins based on a free article he posted that is less than 500 words?
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2 years ago ::
May 12, 2011 - 10:44AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2006
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Are you seriously backseat DMing Chris Perkins based on a free article he posted that is less than 500 words?
If you want to see it that way its your problem. Price does not matter; but if you actually had a DDI account you’d be able to read other articles, which other paying customers have had problems with and have made comments about its flaws. Heck, you’ve even complained on subscriber features and are not a paying customer. Word count does not matter either, although his article contained 1,150, not including unrelated material.  LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, THE IDEA HAS MERIT.
Instead what I am doing is offering a way to avoid the shortcomings that Chris mentions in using his own plot device. I have addressed these flaws and offered alternatives to avoid them.
- This is based on my 30 years DMing experience and multitude of pleased players I’ve had across the face of the US. If Chris or any DM can’t advice that’s their personal problem; but in all my years I have never met with someone (Player or DM) who didn’t offer it.
- I am a Iomandra campaign group member and follow its happenings.
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2 years ago ::
May 12, 2011 - 10:58AM
#7
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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I don't think it's a matter of being able to handle advice. It's a matter that people who are offering advice they actually want people to take should start such advice with something a little less insulting that "EPIC FAIL". And that's for a few reasons.
- Few people will be amenable to advice given right after an insult.
- Using the words "EPIC FAIL" in capital letters, and other insulting language (see below) indicates that the writer is immature and using geekspeak to make themselves appear cooler than they are, and specifically to make themselves look better by tearing down the subject of the criticism. That leads people to disregard the writer's content.
- In addition to "EPIC FAIL", your first paragraph accused the writer of being "petty" and "basically screwed" his players. That's two additional bits of insulting language that had to be waded through before even getting to the first bit of substantive advice. Again, that's not a great way to write, if you're sincerely offering advice and not merely trying to aggrandize yourself by tearing down someone better known.
- Finally, your advice also seems to boil down to "Don't do what you did -- do this other thing I suggest." That's not really advice. That's just disagreement. There doesn't seem to be anything for Mr. Perkins to learn from your post, except that he should be you.
I am offering this as advice to you in case you want to offer advice to Mr. Perkins or others in the future.
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2 years ago ::
May 12, 2011 - 11:12AM
#8
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I just wish I didn't feel like the "Constellation of Madness" was mooning me... That is the alternate reality I a m looking for.  Seriously, I think this is a good article.
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2 years ago ::
May 12, 2011 - 11:12AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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I don't think it's a matter of being able to handle advice. It's a matter that people who are offering advice they actually want people to take should start such advice with something a little less insulting that "EPIC FAIL". And that's for a few reasons.
- Few people will be amenable to advice given right after an insult.
- Using the words "EPIC FAIL" in capital letters, and other insulting language (see below) indicates that the writer is immature and using geekspeak to make themselves appear cooler than they are, and specifically to make themselves look better by tearing down the subject of the criticism. That leads people to disregard the writer's content.
- In addition to "EPIC FAIL", your first paragraph accuded the writer or being "petty" and "basically screwed" his players. That's two additional bits of insulting language that had to be waded through before even getting to the first bit of substantive advice. Again, that's not a great way to write, if you're sincerely offering advice and not merely trying to aggrandize yourself by tearing down someone better known.
- Finally, your advice also seems to boil down to "Don't do what you did -- do this other thing I suggest." That's not really advice. That's just disagreement. There doesn't seem to be anythign for Mr. Perkins to learn from your post, except that he should be you.
I am offering this as advice to you in case you want to offer advice to Mr. Perkins or others in the future.
Listen to Wrecan. I'm going to be honest with you, Morandir: I didn't even read your first post. I saw that you begin with "EPIC FAIL" and stopped right there. If you really just want to give advice, I suggest posting a retraction. Then go back and edit your initial post to remove the offending statements.
If you still don't think you did anything offensive, flip it around. You have "30 years of DMing experience and multitude of pleased players I’ve had across the face of the US." Imagine you posted about your recent adventure twist. The first response begins with "THIS IS THE WORST IDEA EVER" and contains the words "childish" and "lack of thought" to describe you. It further implies that no player would ever enjoy such an adventure. How would you take it?
Advice is fine, and I'm sure even the devs welcome it. Take the effort to be respectful.
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2 years ago ::
May 12, 2011 - 11:25AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2008
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Heck, you’ve even complained on subscriber features and are not a paying customer
FYI, I have a DDI membership it's just not attached to this account because when I signed up for it 2 years ago, I was unaware that I could attach it to my already existing forum account. I haven't changed it because dealing with Customer Service is a hassle.
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