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2 years ago ::
Apr 20, 2011 - 9:45AM
#31
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Power sources don't have to dictate flavor. My party's ranger is very primal despite being Martial. He's practically a druid - he goes on about the Natural Order and his place in it. He rarely eats anything he didn't kill himself, wears the hides of his prey and wields wooden weapons. He has an aversion to sleeping indoors and gets nervous in civilized areas. Some of his powers are refluffed as nature magic. We've also got a barbarian in the group who's thoroughly martial despite being Primal. She doesn't see herself as a proud tribal warrior; she's just a really enthusiastic, reckless soldier of fortune. She doesn't invoke spirits or tap into external sources to fuel her rage. In fact, she's downright civilized until the hammer comes out.
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish."
D&D Outsider
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2 years ago ::
Apr 20, 2011 - 10:06AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2002
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It's just a personal feeling, I don't want to dictate for anyone else. But my personal feeling for the Barbarian is that all the 'flashy' magical type powers give it a non-martial feel. That said ... there are probably plenty of powers for both the Barbarian and Avenger you can take that have absolutely no 'magical' feeling to them at all. Or at least as unmagical a feeling as any Ranger or Fighter power have.  Also if you can't find a power that does what you want flavor-wise, that's what Multiclassing is for.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 21, 2011 - 8:45PM
#33
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That was my initial reflex about the Barbarian, since when I played one I remembered lots of elemental damage and equally crazy stuff triggering on my dailies, but there are solid powers you can pick up every level that could easily be dailies for the Slayer, if it had them.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2011 - 12:43AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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The Barbarian works in the sense of being a tough, big-weapon, melee guy, though the specifics are a little clumsy, and it is juiced up with Primal spirit mojo.
The Avenger, being WIS-primary really doesn't cut it for anything remotely slayer-like.
Even without any mechanical tweaking, a greatweapon fighter is a potent secondary-striker, and an excellent compromise for the party that needs a defender/player that prefers a striker.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Aug 12, 2011 - 8:51PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2009
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Not to play too much with thread necromancy...but I had a new idea that I thought I would get input on...
My original question for the thread was how to do a "slayer"-style fighter in core (non-essentials) 4e. My original solution was a swap of class features (Combat Superiority & Combat Challenge for the damage bonus from Dex). People suggested looking at Ranger, Barbarian, and Avenger. The problem with Barbarian and Avenger are the power sources. The problem with Ranger is the lack of good single-weapon attacks.
My new idea is a Ranger that chooses from the Fighter powers. That way, the Ranger's damage mechanic and other "striker" features go with the powers designed for "greatweapons". How would this work at the table? Would it imbalance? Would it mess with things too much? Too much work? Obviously it wouldn't play well with the CB...but would it work with hand-built characters?
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2 years ago ::
Aug 13, 2011 - 2:01AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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My original question for the thread was how to do a "slayer"-style fighter in core (non-essentials) 4e.
The Slayer is just the E-version of the Greatweapon Fighter build.
My original solution was a swap of class features (Combat Superiority & Combat Challenge for the damage bonus from Dex).
As with the Slayer, that'd result in a 'striker' with defender defenses/hps/surges - plus a lot of very defender-oriented powers.
My new idea is a Ranger that chooses from the Fighter powers. That way, the Ranger's damage mechanic and other "striker" features go with the powers designed for "greatweapons".
That's a very strange take. It runs into several potential issues: It's a wierd precedent, how does it work with multiclassing? It's not a DEX build, but lacks heavy armor. And, as above, the Fighter's powers tend to be defending-oriented.
How would this work at the table? Would it imbalance?
It'd be strange to build, but should be workable enough in play. Given careful power choices (that is, picking and choosing the fighter powers that more or less support its secondary striker role), it could be workable enough at the striker role. Rangers /do/ depend on hitting more often, which is one reason thier extra damage mechanic is a die less than the rogues. I suppose the huge weapon makes up for that. Reaping Strike and Cleave wouldn't exactly suck for the build.
Obviously it wouldn't play well with the CB...but would it work with hand-built characters?
Ultimately you can do whatever you want.
But, if you want a CB 'core' version of a Slayer, you want the build that the Slayer is the E-version of - the Greatweapon Fighter. Yes, the Fighter is a Defender, but it's also a secondary Striker, and the Greatweapon Fighter goes the furthest in the striker direction (and is not quite the defender a Guardian Fighter is). You can concentrate on high-damage, single-target powers, damage-boosting feats, and simply let other defenders do most of the marking (marking /is/ optional), unless circumstance really call for it, or you have things set up so you can count on the mark being defied.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Sep 05, 2011 - 3:03AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2001
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I'd broadly say that the Fighter is strikery enough that just taking away Combat Challenge and Combat Superiority would not be enough. I'd take away all the Dailies, too. This even aligns well with the desire to play a more martial striker - Dailies are very reminiscent of Mage Memorization and was one of things 3e Fighter grognards were most against in Tome of Battle and the 4e Fighter.
Of course, without the Dailies, you're basically playing a Slayer without the Stances and with free Martial Cross-Training. If I were your DM, I'd be okay with that.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2011 - 12:54PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2004
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Hey guys I want to play the Essential's Slayer but I don't want to play something with the name Essentials on it. HALP.
Dude, just go with the slayer. It's what you want.
If you really don't want to do essentials, go for the great weapon fighter from PH1. This ain't rocket surgery.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 18, 2011 - 7:30PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2007
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Before the Slayer, there was the Great Weapon Fighter. They had this cool article in Dragon that had these powers that allowed you to add your Con mod to your damage. Wicked Strike was the at-will. The trade off was you took a -2 penalty, but with Heavy Weapon Expertise and the Two-Handed Weapon bonus, that penalty disappeared. If you wanted, you could take power attack and use that with these powers for double the damage (based off a +3 Con modifier). My level 8 GWF had a +15 to attack and (+2,+5,+4,+2) a +13 to damage, same as my sorcerer. True, his will sucked, but hey, that isn't what I cared about.
But then the Slayer came, and there was much rejoicing. Essentials focus on basic attacks made me able to get my +2 at level 2 (bracers of mighty blows) vs the level 6 (iron bracers of power). This frees up my money for other goodies. Further, the Slayer gets extra damage at certain levels to make it just sick. Plus the ability to wear heavy armor? Golden. If you want to deal the most melee damage, the Slayer is the King. (and you don't need CA like the Rogue)
Conan may have been born a barbarian, but his class is definitely the Slayer!
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