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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 7:08PM
#511
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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Sorry, but I don't really see how it's possible to optimize anywhere near as good with just E stuff, and if someone isn't using just E stuff then I assume they have access to classic 4E stuff, in which case then maybe they should just be playing a different class?
There's no reason to limit yourself to one or the other. It's still all 4e, even as the mess that it currently is. When talking optimization, you have to take the edition as a whole.
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 7:14PM
#512
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@Kronides
Hunters are also primal no? Hence they have a legit reason for having multiple awesome powers.
That has nothing to do with being primal. That has everything to do with being a player class.
This.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 7:17PM
#513
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Date Joined:
Dec 14, 2010
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My bad, I guess I didn't say what I meant to say ^^;
I meant, if somebody has access to both, like if they are a DDI subscriber or whatever, and they want to play a martial hero who goes about destroying monsters with a two-hander in scale, then why not just play a Great Weapon (or was it Invigorating? One of the two) Fighter? It seems like for of the simple classes in Essentials there's a flavorful equivalent in the classic 4E class line-up, which would work as a good proxy.
I hope that makes sense, I'm tired and I don't like putting in the extra effort to proof read.
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 7:19PM
#514
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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My bad, I guess I didn't say what I meant to say ^^;
I meant, if somebody has access to both, like if they are a DDI subscriber or whatever, and they want to play a martial hero who goes about destroying monsters with a two-hander in scale, then why not just play a Great Weapon (or was it Invigorating? One of the two) Fighter? It seems like for of the simple classes in Essentials there's a flavorful equivalent in the classic 4E class line-up, which would work as a good proxy.
I hope that makes sense, I'm tired and I don't like putting in the extra effort to proof read.
Because the Slayer is a much better striker than the phb1 fighter. The phb1 fighter is a defender, and can do good damage for a defender. It is nowhere near what a Slayer is capable of, though.
I never said the essentials classes can't fulfill their role. I just said they go about fulfilling in very uninteresting ways, imo.
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 9:46PM
#515
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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My bad, I guess I didn't say what I meant to say ^^;
I meant, if somebody has access to both, like if they are a DDI subscriber or whatever, and they want to play a martial hero who goes about destroying monsters with a two-hander in scale, then why not just play a Great Weapon (or was it Invigorating? One of the two) Fighter? It seems like for of the simple classes in Essentials there's a flavorful equivalent in the classic 4E class line-up, which would work as a good proxy.
I hope that makes sense, I'm tired and I don't like putting in the extra effort to proof read.
Because the Slayer is a much better striker than the phb1 fighter. The phb1 fighter is a defender, and can do good damage for a defender. It is nowhere near what a Slayer is capable of, though.
I never said the essentials classes can't fulfill their role. I just said they go about fulfilling in very uninteresting ways, imo.
Well somebody pointed out that a great weapon fighter could match or excede* a slayer (*after very short bit and counting the impact of dailies) but that it was ummm a lot of optimizing hoohah to get there... and the slayer is kind of like having a class that went there directly and simply.
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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 10:12AM
#516
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2010
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Firstly Wizards should have the largest choice of powers, or at least the Controllers should (NOT Hunters though, its just a guy with a bow...).
Why shouldn't Hunters have a large choice of powers, again?
Because your assumptions of what a guy with a bow means precludes broad tactical options?
Sorry, your assumptions don't matter. Particularly since the Hunter isn't just a guy with a bow.
Yes yes yes. You are so right. After all, for all of the endless lists of spells that have existed through all previous editions, there was always an archer somewhere who could achieve the same thing with a bit of wood and some string. Its like the story of the old man watering his garden only using his thumb.
Truly did you not bother to read anything I said in context? You are aware of the concept? It's fascinating.
But of course you didn't, you were too busy using a bit of wood and some string to create a wall of force, turn invisible, fly away, put an arcane lock on your door and post inane mutterings in my general direction. Just like any hunter can do because he should be just like a wizard...
Pitiful.
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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 10:22AM
#517
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2010
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Are these powers making the Wizard classes stronger overall - in no way I have observed, at least as yet.
Not likely having your encounter powers all get and effect on a miss is an upgrade...
The BS (Beguiling Strands) at-will power of the Mage is just huge with far reaching implications to play strategy - ask Abdul or Tony either one for details.
- I think you are really missing it.
As is Winged Horde. Still awesome AoE control, that's also party friendly. Nothing to do with Essentials, or HoS, but just saying. 
area burst 1? stop opportunity attacks (oh my oh my - handy but so completly not versitile) winged horde has more range thats useful vs But that close blast 5 (and push them 3 to 5 spaces what you can do with that is spooky) sheesh .
Sure THATS not an upgrade. 
Don't forget that it also removes the ability for them to flank, targets enemies only, and targets will. That power ruins lurkers and skirmishers.
To the encapsulated points above...
There is only 1 encounter power that now has a miss effect - Burning Hands. Big Deal.
Beguiling Strands is just a push, its not like its a slide and does minimal damage that cant be power buffed (buffs almost all refer to damage ROLLS). You can enlarge a Thunderwave and push even further (admittedly its not enemies only). This still DOESNT stop flanking, that statement makes no sense to me really. (???)
As for the far reaching implications, you have sparked my curiousity and
I will look further into it... thanks.
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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 12:08PM
#518
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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Are these powers making the Wizard classes stronger overall - in no way I have observed, at least as yet.
Not likely having your encounter powers all get and effect on a miss is an upgrade...
The BS (Beguiling Strands) at-will power of the Mage is just huge with far reaching implications to play strategy - ask Abdul or Tony either one for details.
- I think you are really missing it.
As is Winged Horde. Still awesome AoE control, that's also party friendly. Nothing to do with Essentials, or HoS, but just saying.
area burst 1? stop opportunity attacks (oh my oh my - handy but so completly not versitile) winged horde has more range thats useful vs But that close blast 5 (and push them 3 to 5 spaces what you can do with that is spooky) sheesh .
Sure THATS not an upgrade.
Don't forget that it also removes the ability for them to flank, targets enemies only, and targets will. That power ruins lurkers and skirmishers.
To the encapsulated points above...
There is only 1 encounter power that now has a miss effect - Burning Hands. Big Deal.
Beguiling Strands is just a push, its not like its a slide and does minimal damage that cant be power buffed (buffs almost all refer to damage ROLLS). You can enlarge a Thunderwave and push even further (admittedly its not enemies only). This still DOESNT stop flanking, that statement makes no sense to me really. (???)
As for the far reaching implications, you have sparked my curiousity and
I will look further into it... thanks.
I meant Winged Horde stops flanking. It removes the ability to make OA's. You can't flank if you can't make OA's.
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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 12:11PM
#519
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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Firstly Wizards should have the largest choice of powers, or at least the Controllers should (NOT Hunters though, its just a guy with a bow...).
Why shouldn't Hunters have a large choice of powers, again?
Because your assumptions of what a guy with a bow means precludes broad tactical options?
Sorry, your assumptions don't matter. Particularly since the Hunter isn't just a guy with a bow.
Yes yes yes. You are so right. After all, for all of the endless lists of spells that have existed through all previous editions, there was always an archer somewhere who could achieve the same thing with a bit of wood and some string. Its like the story of the old man watering his garden only using his thumb.
Truly did you not bother to read anything I said in context? You are aware of the concept? It's fascinating.
But of course you didn't, you were too busy using a bit of wood and some string to create a wall of force, turn invisible, fly away, put an arcane lock on your door and post inane mutterings in my general direction. Just like any hunter can do because he should be just like a wizard...
Pitiful.
The Hunter should not lack tactical options just because it isn't a spellcaster. None of the martial classes before essentials did.
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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 12:38PM
#520
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2003
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Are these powers making the Wizard classes stronger overall - in no way I have observed, at least as yet.
Not likely having your encounter powers all get and effect on a miss is an upgrade...
The BS (Beguiling Strands) at-will power of the Mage is just huge with far reaching implications to play strategy - ask Abdul or Tony either one for details.
- I think you are really missing it.
As is Winged Horde. Still awesome AoE control, that's also party friendly. Nothing to do with Essentials, or HoS, but just saying.
area burst 1? stop opportunity attacks (oh my oh my - handy but so completly not versitile) winged horde has more range thats useful vs But that close blast 5 (and push them 3 to 5 spaces what you can do with that is spooky) sheesh .
Sure THATS not an upgrade.
Don't forget that it also removes the ability for them to flank, targets enemies only, and targets will. That power ruins lurkers and skirmishers.
To the encapsulated points above...
There is only 1 encounter power that now has a miss effect - Burning Hands. Big Deal.
Beguiling Strands is just a push, its not like its a slide and does minimal damage that cant be power buffed (buffs almost all refer to damage ROLLS). You can enlarge a Thunderwave and push even further (admittedly its not enemies only). This still DOESNT stop flanking, that statement makes no sense to me really. (???)
As for the far reaching implications, you have sparked my curiousity and
I will look further into it... thanks.
I meant Winged Horde stops flanking. It removes the ability to make OA's. You can't flank if you can't make OA's.
I will say that I got to see strands in play the other day... WOW. I'm not saying it's broken or OeverPowered, but, WOW. Those WOW's aside, I think that it's a situation where pushes can either mean everything or very little, like most everything else it's highly situational. But the FoF targeting makes it a power that has little reason not to be used, and that is distressing
My Blog, mostly about D&D. I imagine that Majestic Moose plays a more "A team" type game than most of us. By that I mean he allows his players to make tanks out of a backyard playground set since the players have more "fun" that way.
Actually I much prefer The Losers.Spoiler:
Show
When I and my friends sit down we want a game of heroic fantasy. Rare is the moment when I have cried out in a video game or RPG "that's unrealistic." (Unless there is no jump button. Seriously makes me mad, single handedly ruined the N64 zelda series for me, but that's a digression of a digression.)
I mean, we play games with the force in galaxies far, far away, with supernatural horrors, dragons and demi-gods, alternate cosmologies, etc.
Reality and it's effects hold little sway to what makes a Heroic fantasy game fun IMO.
Just repeat after me:
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You are not how much you've spent on WotC products.
You are not whatever RPG you play.
You are one of tens of thousands of people that spend money on a hobby.
You will not always get what you want
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