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2 years ago ::
May 18, 2011 - 2:27PM
#491
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2007
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The Cleric has just gotten a nerf that pushes it back towards the AD&D band-aide role, by degrading it's secondary-controller role. That doesn't make a god-wizard, but it does set the Cleric back as a possible contender. The Arcanist CC article will certainly be an interesting thing to see... Will it be nerfed like the Cleric? Or will it, as has been implied, recieve boosts to it's encounter powers?
Like the cleric, the wizard has enough powers that nerfing a few will have little overall effect. I wouldn't be surprised if a few have damage lowered and some get some extra effects tacked on or put in effect instead of hit lines. A push on fireball for instance.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman
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2 years ago ::
May 18, 2011 - 8:28PM
#492
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2010
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Hi guys,
Just read the Cleric update. Not amused. Having said that I'm confused by some people's talk of god-wizards and how Essentials is all about making Wizards stronger (it has come up in a few places). I don't think this is really the case. Wizards are not damage dealers. In fact I find some of the scariest wizards among our public players are hardly making a scratch on creatures. It should be apparent for those who regularly play LFR that the only wizards considered worth having at the table are Control Wizards or the occassional Illusionist (Summoning is useless in 4E and War Wizards are try-hard Sorcerors who simply can't meet the damage output). The players with Defenders/Strikers are quite vocal about this, trust me (after 9 levels of hell my Wizard now is a Control wizard).
So while I agree that the dumbing down of the Defenders has made them the most insulting to play and Strikers are becoming boring, I don't think that the Wizard is benefitting from this at all. In the end ALL of the classes are suffering.
I'm certain that the Arcanist release will be making eunuchs of the Wizard class, who will likely have their role reduced to providing Magic Missle ('hey guaranteed hits are a form of control...' will be the likely support argument). After all look at the Binder, it can't control OR strike (maybe its called a Binder because it is constipating). If they are prepared to nerf everything else (a pansy with a pact-weapon and no curse is NOT a Warlock in my book) then my money is on Wizards being reduced to parlour tricksters and comic relief.
It's all a plot to make us buy the board games, which I might, just so I can offer them up as a holocaust to the Far Realms... Watch out WotC...
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2 years ago ::
May 18, 2011 - 9:57PM
#493
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If they are prepared to nerf everything else (a pansy with a pact-weapon and no curse is NOT a Warlock in my book) then my money is on Wizards being reduced to parlour tricksters and comic relief.
It's all a plot to make us buy the board games, which I might, just so I can offer them up as a holocaust to the Far Realms... Watch out WotC...
Hexblades are badass, brochacho.
Seriously. Against melee monsters, a white well hexblade (with one or two white lotus feats) is bloody infuriating. A gloomblade is practically a full controller, while also being a decent striker and is just fun to play. Feyblades...well...win.
Hell, Hexblades are closer to what I always wanted Warlocks to be in the first place, even in previous editions.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 3:12AM
#494
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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I'm confused by some people's talk of god-wizards and how Essentials is all about making Wizards stronger (it has come up in a few places).
It's nothing too definite. If you look through HotFL, you'll find that there are two versions of the Fighter, the Knight and Slayer, and one of the Rogue, the Theif. They're all capable enough in their basic role functions, at least at low level, but they lack any variety or choice in encounter attack powers, and lack dailies, entirely, they're at-will attack powers are also 'un-leveled.' The result is that they're broadly incompatible with prior Fighter and Rogue material. They don't build on or benefit from the hundreds of powers those classes already had. They're solid, even power-inflated a bit, but they're in thier own little sub-class 'silos,' offering minimal synergy. Similarly, though to a lesser degree, the Warpriest, while an AEDU class in structure, has a startling lack of choice, and can't readily avail itself of all the Cleric goodies that came before - and it's not really clear how easily Clerics can take up Warpriest powers, which are mostly linked to Domains. And, of course, the Templar got nerfed. Alone among the classes in HotFL, the Mage is fully compatible with the Wizard, able to use any prior wizard power, and having a number of powers that are simple upgrades of existing wizard powers. There's been some indication that the Archanist will get similar upgrades to it's encounter powers across the board. HotFL was followed up with a 4th Mage build in Dragon, and two more in HoS, each with spells entirely useable by Wizard or Mage of any stripe.
So, yeah, the reality is that the Wizard has been making out like a bandit ever since Essentials first hit the street, and no on else really is. Martial classes are getting nothing more than a few encounter utilities from Essentials+, the Cleric, Druid, Paladin and Warlock have gotten some semi-compatible sub-classes. No one's really making clear gains /except/ the Mage & Wizard(Archanist?).
It's a trend. It's not that profound in degree, as yet, but it's ominous given the history of the Wizard and Magic-user in prior eds.
I don't think this is really the case. Wizards are not damage dealers. In fact I find some of the scariest wizards among our public players are hardly making a scratch on creatures. It should be apparent for those who regularly play LFR .
I think the concern is more about where things seem to be heading, then where they are right not. The Wizard has recieved a bit of a boost via the Mage, the Mage has vastly more power selection than any other Essentials+ class, but neither has become wildly overpowered, as yet.
So while I agree that the dumbing down of the Defenders has made them the most insulting to play and Strikers are becoming boring,
Nod.
I don't think that the Wizard is benefitting from this at all. In the end ALL of the classes are suffering.
How is the Wizard suffering? Does he feel sorry for the monsters he deals half damage to on a miss with his updated-to-match-essentials encounter powers, now? 
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 7:54AM
#495
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2010
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Well if you pull out Burning Hands in public play, dont expect a lot of help from the defender - you just proved you are not bothering to cover your role so you better hope the leader likes you :D
I can see your point about the abundance of wizard powers being published and I would note two things.
Firstly Wizards should have the largest choice of powers, or at least the Controllers should (NOT Hunters though, its just a guy with a bow...). This is a reflection of the fact that their powers are spells/prayers and therefore have been developed in various areas/regions and by various individuals (some even famously named in their powers eg Bigby or Evard). It is unrealistic to think that the world of academia in any setting would come up with approximately the same number of moves as a bloke swinging a sword (no offence intended to my Defender friends). So having more powers to choose from makes sense as does the use of rituals. Mages to me lose all credibility just by not having rituals. Try telling me rituals aren't important the next time you are dead in a ditch, want to transfer an enchantment or need to open a portal (you get my drift). I guess my ramble is getting at the fact that the Controllers, especially Wizards, are the go-to guys when things get tricky. They are expected to have all kinds of unusual and fantastical solutions to both mundane and unique problems. This to some extent needs to be reflected in the powers available to them.
Secondly I think that a lot of the newer powers coming out for the wizard are mostly aimed at providing this extra flavour, however mostly without any extra punch. Looking through HoS I only have managed to take 1 Daily power out of it for my 10th lvl Wizard and it works well, but there is an encounter power 2 levels lower that does the same thing really. I have also noted a lot of burst attacks being replaced with single target ranged attacks that then may effect the adjacent creatures. These are useless. You only get 1 attack roll so your chances of hitting are reduced and the effects are usually 2 dimensional (useless on flyers). This is not real control.
Realistically Wizards in 4E are not a 'glory' class. The strikers always parade around (myself in Warlock mode included) pointing out how we dropped the big bad in 2 hits (forgetting that the Defender took 600 damage to let us do that). Everyone watches when the strikers have their go. Most of the time when a controller is up, half the table are eating or talking or reading while the controller makes his attempts at control - UNLESS the party need something specific. Then they hang on your every motion, at least until its time to hit things again. That's as good as it gets. The rest is a quiet knowing, that really you were the one who limited the DMs options so he had no control over the combat and that THAT is why the strikers struck true. It is a quiet, internal glory and it is worth savouring... but I digress.
So are there a lot more powers being released for wizards - yes
Should there be - yes (but also for Invokers, Psions and Druids & Seekers)
Are these powers making the Wizard classes stronger overall - in no way I have observed, at least as yet.
I expect that the Arcanist update will likely cripple Wizards just as much as they have others...
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 9:08AM
#496
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2007
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Well if you pull out Burning Hands in public play, dont expect a lot of help from the defender - you just proved you are not bothering to cover your role so you better hope the leader likes you :D
The wizard, rogue and sorc all dumping out big AEs and clearing the field is great control.
So are there a lot more powers being released for wizards - yes
Should there be - yes (but also for Invokers, Psions and Druids & Seekers)
And Artificers. And others I'm sure.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 9:34AM
#497
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Are these powers making the Wizard classes stronger overall - in no way I have observed, at least as yet.
Not likely having your encounter powers all get and effect on a miss is an upgrade...
The BS (Beguiling Strands) at-will power of the Mage is just huge with far reaching implications to play strategy - ask Abdul or Tony either one for details.
- I think you are really missing it.
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 1:53PM
#498
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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Are these powers making the Wizard classes stronger overall - in no way I have observed, at least as yet.
Not likely having your encounter powers all get and effect on a miss is an upgrade...
The BS (Beguiling Strands) at-will power of the Mage is just huge with far reaching implications to play strategy - ask Abdul or Tony either one for details.
- I think you are really missing it.
As is Winged Horde. Still awesome AoE control, that's also party friendly. Nothing to do with Essentials, or HoS, but just saying. 
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 5:39PM
#499
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Are these powers making the Wizard classes stronger overall - in no way I have observed, at least as yet.
Not likely having your encounter powers all get and effect on a miss is an upgrade...
The BS (Beguiling Strands) at-will power of the Mage is just huge with far reaching implications to play strategy - ask Abdul or Tony either one for details.
- I think you are really missing it.
As is Winged Horde. Still awesome AoE control, that's also party friendly. Nothing to do with Essentials, or HoS, but just saying.
area burst 1? stop opportunity attacks (oh my oh my - handy but so completly not versitile) winged horde has more range thats useful vs But that close blast 5 (and push them 3 to 5 spaces what you can do with that is spooky) sheesh .
Sure THATS not an upgrade. 
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 6:12PM
#500
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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Are these powers making the Wizard classes stronger overall - in no way I have observed, at least as yet.
Not likely having your encounter powers all get and effect on a miss is an upgrade...
The BS (Beguiling Strands) at-will power of the Mage is just huge with far reaching implications to play strategy - ask Abdul or Tony either one for details.
- I think you are really missing it.
As is Winged Horde. Still awesome AoE control, that's also party friendly. Nothing to do with Essentials, or HoS, but just saying.
area burst 1? stop opportunity attacks (oh my oh my - handy but so completly not versitile) winged horde has more range thats useful vs But that close blast 5 (and push them 3 to 5 spaces what you can do with that is spooky) sheesh .
Sure THATS not an upgrade.
Don't forget that it also removes the ability for them to flank, targets enemies only, and targets will. That power ruins lurkers and skirmishers.
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