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Dungeons & Dra.. Homebrew Campaigns Psionic Augmentation Striker: The 4e Soulknife
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2011 - 12:29PM #1
embertiger
Date Joined: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 520

Soulknife: The Psionic Augmentation Striker


Class DescriptionHeroic Tier Powers   |  Paragon Tier Powers  | Epic Tier Powers


Paragon Paths: Blur, Disciple of the Perfect Strike, Psionic Assassin, Soulsteel Knight


Epic Destiny:  Soulforged Ascendant


Soulknife Feats  |  Hybrid SoulknifeDiscussion Thread


Hey everyone!

I decided that the lack of a striker with psionic augmentation needs to be fixed so I made one!  It's a 4e re-imagining of the Soulknife who focuses on speed and damage and plays like a mix of the battlemind and ranger.  Let me know what you think!  Is this a class you would play?  Anything seem overpowered/underpowered/boring?

A few notes for those giving feedback:

1.  I ran the math and compared powers to other psionic classes and other strikers.  The DPR for the class is good but is not meant to do more than existing strikers.

2.  As an add-on to the above, you'll notice many of multi-attack powers seem worse than other classes' on the surface to make up for the Soulknife's high static damage bonuses.  If you take that into account, the powers are roughly as good as multiattacks that other classes get.

3.  The themes for this class are quick attacks, evasion, mobility, and a psionic feel.  Most of the powers try to reinforce at least one of those themes.

4.  These powers are all the class has, so I tried to give each level at least 3 viable options.  I wanted to give the player good choices for damage, defense or mobility.

Updated 8/17/11
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2011 - 2:36PM #2
Damon_Tor
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2009
Posts: 3,590
Note: Before you read the below post, keep in mind that how much I like something is directly proportional to how much I want to fiddle with it.  In my case, alteration is the sincerest form of flattery.  I've had people take posts like this personally, but in fact it means I really really like it.

This looks very promising.

Damage seems a bit low, with many of their augmentations staying at 1[W] damage.  For a power like "Attack on the Wind" I'd think 2[W] would be more appropriate, or maybe leave it at 1[W] but have it target 1, 2, or 3 creatures you become adjacent to during the shift.  I haven't read all the powers, but there are others that could use a damage boost at augment 2, like Psychic Opening.

Generally, I think this class has a lot of potential as a versatile striker, creating whatever weapon best suits the situation at hand, perhaps even more than just blades. 

As you've written the feature, it's just a clearer, better written version of the Hexblade IMO.  That's fine, of course; the hexblade is overcomplicated and needs improvement, but I think much more can be done with the concept.  Especially since many of the best mechanical/thematic matches for this class (elves, eladrin, githzerai) have racial weapon proficiencies/enhancement feats would be a shame to waste.  Even dwarves, as mechanically inept as they would be for this class, could become interesting simply due to the fact that they would go around manifesting mind-hammers.


Further, there's some danger of this class just being seen as "The Jedi" with high-mobility, mind tricks, and a lightsabre.  That's not a terrible thing, but some other schtick would un-niche that a bit, and my suggestion to unlimit the nature of the soulblade would help, I think.


Light Shield expertise is okay thematically and mechanically very relevant, but I think it fits the flavor better if it's a part of the whole psionic manifestation theme.


Here would be by suggested rewrite:

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Heavy Shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee Weapons, Military Melee Weapons

...

Mind Blade

As a free action once per round, you manifest a weapon or shield you are proficient with in a free hand.  This weapon or shield ceases to exist at the end of any turn you are not holding it, and you may also dismiss this object as a free action.  You deal additional psychic damage equal to your charisma modifier when you hit with an attack using a weapon created in this way.  This bonus increases to your charisma modifier +2 at 11th level and to your charisma modifier +4 at 21st level.  Thrown weapons created in this way return to your hand after the attack is resolved, and missile weapons created in this way do not require ammunition.


In addition, whenever you take a Weapon Expertise feat, you can take a second weapon expertise feat of your choice for free.



Generally, very similar to what you've written, but instead of morphing into special weapons you need to invent for it, it uses whatever weapons he's proficienct with.  (Mind-flails are cool too!)  Why can't there be mind-bows or mind-spears?  Saves you some work and leaves room for interesting options.  I removed the restriction of manifesting more than one at a time, mostly because I don't see the harm, and it could be cool.  I made it a 1/round to prevent possible redraw abuses, with all the added versatility.  ie, otherwise there would be little downside to manifesting a fullblade to attack then switching to a sword/shield combo to defend, but the limit it to 1/round means he has to accept the trade-off of more damage or adequate defense.


Another minor change was, instead of all the untyped damage being psychic, only the bonus damage is.  This means psychic resistant/immune enemies wouldn't totally shut down the class, but they'd be just as effective versus psychic vulnerbility.  It also means a hypothetical attack that has no untyped damage would still deal a little psychic damage.


I added the shield provision both for flavor, since mind shields are cool too, and because it allows a user to switch to a two-handed weapon upon occasion without dealing with the standard-action shield redraw.  Note the change from leather+light shield to cloth+heavy shield: this further encourages the use of one-handed weapons by placing more of his defense into his off-hand.  Keep in mind he'll almost never be using a physical heavy shield: it will just be an awesome glowing mind-shield.  He could use a real one if he wanted, but there's no reason for him to do so.  Cloth+Heavy Shield yields 1 less point of AC than Leather+Light Shield, but this puts him on par with rogues and monks.  Strikers with more AC tend to not have dex as a primary score, which is why Avengers' get +3 from their feature while monks get +2.  Obviously, there are exceptions, and some strikers have more AC than others.  In my mind, the extreme mobility built into this class should keep it at the lower tier of standard striker AC.  


The bonus expertise feat is my major change here, made for the sake of the weapon-use versatility I think the class could adopt as the thing that makes it functionally different.  This way, an Eladrin Soulknife could take both spear and heavy blade expertise and manifest either a Longsword or Spear without feeling like they have to use whichever they took the expertise for.  A elf soulknife could take a melee weapon expertise while still keeping the option for bow expertise.  (And yes, an elf could manifest mind-bows, since they have a racial proficiency for them, which seems kind of neat to me)


This approach also makes Soulknives more viable multi-classers and hybrids as well.  A Soulknife|Rogue could manifest a dagger to take advantage of rogue attacks/features that benefit from that weapon and still use heavy blades when he wants to be a soulknife, while a Soulknife|Ranger could manifest a bow for fighting at range.


...


Free Wild Prodigy is a great touch, btw.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2011 - 2:57PM #3
Cohen95
Date Joined: Mar 15, 2008
Posts: 3,447

I would suggest expanding to two builds. Maybe switching out Dex for Int (as the class is more reliant on the raw mental energy the character can manifest). One build would key off of Charisma for a secondary, and be geared toward light blades, with powers targetting multiple enemies (like a Warlock), while the other could be keyed off of Constitution (or Wis, or Int if you keep Dex primary), with powers targetting one enemy, but doing a lot more damage (like a Barbarian).


Keying off of Dex, with Cha/Con as secondary makes Halflings and Revenants the iconic races (as they have the perfect stats for both builds). Keying off Dex with Cha/Wis secondary makes Drow the consumate soulknives, while keying off Dex with Cha/Int would not have any one "perfect" race across the whole build (not a bad thing). Keying off Int with Cha/Con would have the same effect, while Int with Cha/Wis would give it to Shardminds (interesting symmetry).


I think that's a good thing to keep in mind when you're designing the mechanics and builds of a class. Ask yourself, "what races do I see being the most iconic/legendary members of this class?"

"Not only are you wrong, but I even created an Excel spreadsheet to show you how wrong you are." --James Wyatt, May 2006

Dilige, et quod vis fac
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 8:45AM #4
Cyvaris
Date Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 877
I would vote for INT as a main stat as well. The soulknife has always screamed INT to me. Also it gives us an INT based striker which is something new. Dex Cha is so old and over used. I agree with Cohen that Int+Wis/Cha would be the best "flavor" wise. It makes the racial choices interesting, Eladrin, Githserai, Sharminds, Elves etc, and it lets the class fill some nice gaps in the party.

Also you have a feature that boosts "intiative", which is sort of odd when this class is DEX primary.  

Also I think borrowing the Warlock's "Elthral Sidestep" might be a good idea, as this class would seem to be a natural teleporter. Maybe give it a at-will that teleports 1, but can be augmented to teleport more/be a interrupt.

One more thing...while the striker mechanic "works", it could be more flavorful. The +dmg is just sort of bland. I suggested this for a "striker" swordmage, but I like it better here. Give the soulkinfe a "mark" he uses on one enemy. That enemy gains vulnerable X to the Soulknifes attacks. This serves the same purpose, but has some fun flavor to it.

Overall I really like this, and it looks very similar to the Soulknife I was working on.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 11:11AM #5
embertiger
Date Joined: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 520
Wow!  So many great ideas already.

Apr 4, 2011 -- 2:36PM, Damon_Tor wrote:


Damage  seems a bit low, with many of their augmentations staying at 1[W]  damage.  For a power like "Attack on the Wind" I'd think 2[W] would be  more appropriate, or maybe leave it at 1[W] but have it target 1, 2, or 3  creatures you become adjacent to during the shift.  I haven't read all  the powers, but there are others that could use a damage boost at  augment 2, like Psychic Opening.




On further inspection, I think that powers like Attack on the Wind could use a damage boost.  I was looking at rogue encounter powers and battlemind augments for reference, which both are lower damage than normal.  I'll up a couple of the augments up.  Psychic Opening is a bit of a weird case in that I intentionally lowered the damage because it lets you use the striker feature more than once per round, being a minor action attack.  Taking that into account, is it still not damaging enough?  I wanted it to be close in power to Painful Strike.

Apr 4, 2011 -- 2:36PM, Damon_Tor wrote:


Here would be by suggested rewrite:

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Heavy Shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee Weapons, Military Melee Weapons

...

Mind Blade

As a free action once per round, you manifest a weapon or shield you  are proficient with in a free hand.  This weapon or shield ceases to  exist at the end of any turn you are not holding it, and you may also  dismiss this object as a free action.  You deal additional psychic  damage equal to your charisma modifier when you hit with an attack using  a weapon created in this way.  This bonus increases to your charisma  modifier +2 at 11th level and to your charisma modifier +4 at 21st  level.  Thrown weapons created in this way return to your hand after the  attack is resolved, and missile weapons created in this way do not  require ammunition.


In addition, whenever you take a Weapon Expertise feat, you can take a  second weapon expertise feat of your choice for free.




 


I really like this idea.  It gives a lot more versatility to the class than my original hexblade-like idea.   I'm just wondering whether the expertise bonus is necessary with feats like Master at-Arms and the upcoming Ki Focus Expertise, which I imagine will serve a similar function.   I like your simpler summoning mechanic but I wanted the Soulknife to be able to attack from stealth without giving himself away with the light from his weapon.  I'm thinking about reformatting this class feature into a power for clarity.


Also, the leather/small shield was a throwback to the 3.5 e proficiencies.  Cloth and heavy shields would result in AC one point lower for base class but with the ability to boost it by two with feats.  I get that you want to make shields a big choice vs. just manifesting a two-handed weapon but I'm on the fence about this change.



Apr 4, 2011 -- 2:36PM, Damon_Tor wrote:


 Free Wild Prodigy is a great touch, btw.


 




Thanks!


Apr 4, 2011 -- 2:57PM, Cohen95 wrote:


I  would suggest expanding to two builds. Maybe switching out Dex for Int  (as the class is more reliant on the raw mental energy the character can  manifest). One build would key off of Charisma for a secondary, and be  geared toward light blades, with powers targetting multiple enemies  (like a Warlock), while the other could be keyed off of Constitution (or  Wis, or Int if you keep Dex primary), with powers targetting one enemy,  but doing a lot more damage (like a Barbarian).


Keying off of Dex, with Cha/Con as secondary makes Halflings and  Revenants the iconic races (as they have the perfect stats for both  builds). Keying off Dex with Cha/Wis secondary makes Drow the consumate  soulknives, while keying off Dex with Cha/Int would not have any one  "perfect" race across the whole build (not a bad thing). Keying off Int  with Cha/Con would have the same effect, while Int with Cha/Wis would  give it to Shardminds (interesting symmetry).


I think that's a good thing to keep in mind when you're designing the  mechanics and builds of a class. Ask yourself, "what races do I see  being the most iconic/legendary members of this class?"





Apr 5, 2011 -- 8:45AM, Cyvaris wrote:

I would vote for INT as a main  stat as well. The soulknife has always screamed INT to me. Also it gives  us an INT based striker which is something new. Dex Cha is so old and  over used. I agree with Cohen that Int+Wis/Cha would be the best  "flavor" wise. It makes the racial choices interesting, Eladrin,  Githserai, Sharminds, Elves etc, and it lets the class fill some nice  gaps in the party.





"Original Reasons for Dex/Cha Show


I wanted the class to have a strong mental statistic due to its psionic nature.  However, I felt like it made more sense for the psionic power of the character to be represented in the strength of the mind blade they can manifest, therefore pushing me to tie the mental statistic (Int, Wis, or Cha) to damage.  I wanted the class to be good at physical skills and be one of the "fastest" classes.  It always bothered me how battleminds were flavored as being lightning quick but not having great initiative, reflex defenses, or being good at skills which required fast reactions.  Therefore I decided on Dexterity to be the other statistic for the class.  Therefore, I ended up with a Dexterity primary class with a mental statistic secondary.  I wanted the class to be focused on single target damage to set it apart from the monk more, and because I like single-target strikers better.

That second mental statistic was originally intelligence, but I worried about the class having two bad defenses.  I thought about a class feature allowing the class to use Intelligence in place of Charisma or Wisdom for thier Will defense, but in the end, I wasn't sure if the flavor was that different so I stuck with Charisma. 


I honestly didn't think much about races when I made the class.  I suppose it might be good if the strongly psionic flavored races like Kalashtar, Githzerai, and Shardminds be good at the class but it wasn't really something I'd considered.  This would be a good reason to make the class Int primary.

Edit:  Upon further reflection, I decided I liked the idea of making the class Int primary with a class feature improving physical skills see below for details.

Apr 5, 2011 -- 8:45AM, Cyvaris wrote:


Also you have a feature that boosts "intiative", which is sort of odd when this class is DEX primary.  

Also I think borrowing the Warlock's "Elthral Sidestep" might be a good idea, as this class would seem to be a natural teleporter. Maybe give it a at-will that teleports 1, but can be augmented to teleport more/be a interrupt.

One more thing...while the striker mechanic "works", it could be more flavorful. The +dmg is just sort of bland. I suggested this for a "striker" swordmage, but I like it better here. Give the soulkinfe a "mark" he uses on one enemy. That enemy gains vulnerable X to the Soulknifes attacks. This serves the same purpose, but has some fun flavor to it.




I wanted to reinforce the idea that this was the fastest moving class so I gave them bonuses to things I thought of as fast.  It might have been unnecessary.  However, if I end up changing it to Int primary, than I would definitely keep it.

I was thinking the class could start getting more teleports in paragon.  I was also thinking of a feat which let you teleport with all soulknife powers that let you shift.

I originally experimented with something like the 3.5 edition version, where you charged up your mind blade every turn, but in play I thought it would get extremely tedious and annoying to remember.  My next idea was to have the bonus damage tied to the mind blade, which is what I went with.  I like your idea's originality but I'm worried it would be adding complexity that would end up playing exactly the same.  This is also a class which likes to have its minor actions free to use utility powers like psychic empowerment or extra attack powers like psychic opening.

Great feedback so far.  Thank you so much.


Edit:

Here's what I'm planning on changing.

1.  Make class Int primary/Cha or Wis secondary.
2.  Add Class Feature:

Psychometabolism

You have learned to harness your psionic power to boost your physical skills.  You may use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Strength or Dexerity modifier when making Acrobatics or Athletics checks.

3.  Change the mind blade class feature significantly to grant an at-will conjuration power and take in changes suggested by Damon_Tor.
4.  Upping damage on some augments.
5. Thinking about ways to add more teleports to the class.
 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 3:20PM #6
Cyvaris
Date Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 877
You could easily change the level 9 at-will shift to a teleport, its the same level as the warlock equivalent.

Also if you want any help I would be happy to lend a hand, I have been kicking around a house-rule class like this for awhile. For paragon paths you could possibly have paths that each focus on individual weapons.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 6:33PM #7
embertiger
Date Joined: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 520
Posted an update of the class features.  Let me know what you think.

I kept proficiencies to blades to encourage iconic build but allowed for easily using another weapon.  I plan for a feat that allows ranged mind weapons.  I thought powers like Throw Mind Blade would look silly if you could just conjure up a bow.  I tentatively added another build but I need ideas on how to differentiate between them beyond "generally offensive" and "mildly defensive."
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 9:10PM #8
Damon_Tor
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2009
Posts: 3,590
On Armor Profs Show
The change to hide proficiency, combined with light shield proficiency and a dex or int primary class results in AC that's likely too high for a striker, at 17-18 at level 1 depending on stats, or 18-19 for a Weapon of Light soulknife... ie, defender level AC.  Melee strikers should max out at around 17 AC, which particularly mobile or versitile strikers coming in at a bit less.  Leather+Light Shield gets you top-tier striker AC of 16-17.

At very least you should reduce armor proficiency to leather.  As I noted before though, because of the mobility of the class, cloth+heavy shield would result in a more appropriate AC for a very mobile striker.


On Ability Scores Show
Int as your primary score is... okay... but I didn't have a problem with dex, thematically.  After all, even though you do use your mind to create your weapon you are still using your body to get that weapon into the other guy.  Psionics is a very diverse power source remember: all the existing psionic classes use a different primary score for different reasons.  Intelligence is reserved for classes that come about their power through study, and that doesn't really seem to fit this class.  If anything, charisma makes more sense, since charisma best represents the ability to manifest one's will externally, which is why it's the primary score for sorcerers.

This class doesn't have a lot of precedent in fantasy, but of the fictional characters I can think of who manifest weapons of various sorts, intelligence doesn't seem to be the overriding factor.  Psylocke of the X-Men is the archtypical Soulknife IMO, and I'd call her Dex/Cha.  I'd say the same thing of any of the various characters in Bleach, who manifest weapons which are generally more physical than ephemeral, so there's a similarity (though admittedly my knowledge of the anime is limited, and my knowledge of the manga, nonexistent.)

I do see room for a Dex/Int build by the way, as long as the class feature also adds +3/+5/+7 to will power at heroic/paragon/epic.


Other Show
Other changes look good.  I actually like limiting initial proficiencies to blades, making "Soul Axes" possible, but unusual, and retaining the flavor of the class. 

On defenses, I'd be tempted to make it +2 to will over +1 reflex +1 will.  Consider the fact that you'll not only have int as a primary score (or dex, if you follow your first and IMO correct instincts) but you'll also have some form of shield proficiency, which will mean he won't need any help with his reflex score.  There are many classes that have NAD bonuses that reinforce and already strong score, but I can't think of one that combines Int or Dex primary, shield proficiency, AND a nad bonus to reflex.  Look at the Assassin for example: +1 to relfex would make thematic sense, but because he's dex primary and has light shield prof, he has +1 con, +1 will instead.

I didn't get a chance to look over the powers, but I'll try to a bit later.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 12:25AM #9
rampant
Date Joined: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 8,104
The armor proficiency seems weird.
Did you mean cloth, leather, hide, and light shield? 

The pure blade and the blade of light also bug me, dazing on a crit seems a little too different from moving well with a shield for my taste. I'd advise that the abilities granted by build be brought into some sort of parallel, either both do something fun on a crit, or they both mod proficiencies, as it is they hard to balance against each other.

Next, I'm a little concerned about the shedding of light aspect, makes stealth very difficult. So you're sneaking up on this orc, and as you prepare to strike you give away your position to his buddies and get speared in the face. Seems like a bad business plan. I'd make the light optional.

Now I know the class is called the soulknife, but is restricting them to heavy and light blades for military weapons really necessary? What about 1 military weapon proficiency of their choice?

Next up, implements I get the ki-focus, but what about being able to channel the blade through a held rod? Like Kuwabara from YuYu Hakusho, when used in such a manner the hand holding the rod is also holding the weapon, so a Soulknife with a rod can use a two handed weapon or a one-hander and a shield.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 1:10AM #10
greatfrito
  • YMTS: XXIX Winner
Date Joined: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 8,293
While I'm sure it's unecessary, here's a big list of the 4e attempts at the Soulknife class on these forums.  Wink  Note that the majority of these don't use power points - but hey, potential inspiration, right?

Soulknife Character Theme (Greatfrito) - Uses power points, but is modeled as a theme, rather than a class (which means power point use is... odd).

The Soulknife (FaustianPengiun) - Uses power points, but really just a base framework.

A Quick Soulknife (Greatfrito) - Spoiler Alert - It's a monk!  Really, it's just an optional feature for the existing Monk class.  This has been my favorite approach (I've used it in play) - but take that with a grain of salt (as I wrote it).

The Soulknife as Feats (calronmoonflower) - It's mostly a conversion of feats published elsewhere, but it does a good job.  Another "different approach".  No power points.

Soulknife Conversion (Tsithlis) - A pre-PH3 conversion, so no power points.  Never really got off of the ground.

Soulknife - Psionic Striker (Greatfrito) - The only completed soulknife class I'm aware of.  It's a pre-PH3 design, so no power points.

----------------------------------------------------------------

And, besides all that, the only major input I would offer is: there's really no reason to stick with the "blade" conceit - except flavor.  If you feel strongly about it, keep it as just a blade.  I always do.

But, as a compromise, it's probably best to include some kind of option for changing the "blade"'s shape into something else.  I think a feat works fine - you just have to make it a balanced choice (it has to give a real benefit - swapping to a different but essentially equivalent weapon isn't a benefit).
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.

No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).

(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)

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Dungeons & Dra.. Homebrew Campaigns Psionic Augmentation Striker: The 4e Soulknife
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