Why you may have missed it: Dagon is nested within the Demogorgon blocks, and could be construed as a simple minion by a quick reading when he is in fact anything but a minion.
What makes it so special: It is fricking Dagon. In all his Cthulionic Glory. He is the oldest of Demon Lords (how's that for flavor?) and unlike most demons who only want destruction for destruction's sake, Dagon seems to have a plan. Trying to figure out what that plan is would probably induce madness, but hey, there it is. Hell, he even fights followers of Vecna for knowledge (an awesome hook for a less zealous PC follower of Vecna if there ever was one, and a good reason to use that recent Vecna article).
Conclusion: I think that people dismiss the D&D demons as engines of destruction, pure and simple, and while a fair amount of the time that may be true, there are always more subtle demons. Grazzt is one, Dagon is another. He's given even more importance in the Demonomicon, what with being an obyrith and all, but that's a tale ofr another time . . .
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )
Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotesShow
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
Why you may have missed it: Dagon is nested within the Demogorgon blocks, and could be construed as a simple minion by a quick reading when he is in fact anything but a minion.
What makes it so special: It is fricking Dagon. In all his Cthulionic Glory. He is the oldest of Demon Lords (how's that for flavor?) and unlike most demons who only want destruction for destruction's sake, Dagon seems to have a plan. Trying to figure out what that plan is would probably induce madness, but hey, there it is. Hell, he even fights followers of Vecna for knowledge (an awesome hook for a less zealous PC follower of Vecna if there ever was one, and a good reason to use that recent Vecna article).
Conclusion: I think that people dismiss the D&D demons as engines of destruction, pure and simple, and while a fair amount of the time that may be true, there are always more subtle demons. Grazzt is one, Dagon is another. He's given even more importance in the Demonomicon, what with being an obyrith and all, but that's a tale ofr another time . . .
And if you read Demonomicon, you'll discover that Dagon is one of the Obryths (spelling?), along with Pazuzu and others, who are a group of demons plotting something even greater...
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Why you may have missed it: Dagon is nested within the Demogorgon blocks, and could be construed as a simple minion by a quick reading when he is in fact anything but a minion.
What makes it so special: It is fricking Dagon. In all his Cthulionic Glory. He is the oldest of Demon Lords (how's that for flavor?) and unlike most demons who only want destruction for destruction's sake, Dagon seems to have a plan. Trying to figure out what that plan is would probably induce madness, but hey, there it is. Hell, he even fights followers of Vecna for knowledge (an awesome hook for a less zealous PC follower of Vecna if there ever was one, and a good reason to use that recent Vecna article).
Conclusion: I think that people dismiss the D&D demons as engines of destruction, pure and simple, and while a fair amount of the time that may be true, there are always more subtle demons. Grazzt is one, Dagon is another. He's given even more importance in the Demonomicon, what with being an obyrith and all, but that's a tale ofr another time . . .
And if you read Demonomicon, you'll discover that Dagon is one of the Obryths (spelling?), along with Pazuzu and others, who are a group of demons plotting something even greater...
I actually mentioned that very much later in my Conclusion bit.
But you may have missed it.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )
Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotesShow
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
Both Dagon and The Ninth Bastion are perfect for a campaign I'm putting together. The Exodus Knife would be a good way to provide a safe haven for my PCs in the game world I'm creating too. So many awsome things in this thread for me to use. Thanks everyone! I have to get writing now...
Why you may have missed it: Dagon is nested within the Demogorgon blocks, and could be construed as a simple minion by a quick reading when he is in fact anything but a minion.
What makes it so special: It is fricking Dagon. In all his Cthulionic Glory. He is the oldest of Demon Lords (how's that for flavor?) and unlike most demons who only want destruction for destruction's sake, Dagon seems to have a plan. Trying to figure out what that plan is would probably induce madness, but hey, there it is. Hell, he even fights followers of Vecna for knowledge (an awesome hook for a less zealous PC follower of Vecna if there ever was one, and a good reason to use that recent Vecna article).
Conclusion: I think that people dismiss the D&D demons as engines of destruction, pure and simple, and while a fair amount of the time that may be true, there are always more subtle demons. Grazzt is one, Dagon is another. He's given even more importance in the Demonomicon, what with being an obyrith and all, but that's a tale ofr another time . . .
And if you read Demonomicon, you'll discover that Dagon is one of the Obryths (spelling?), along with Pazuzu and others, who are a group of demons plotting something even greater...
I actually mentioned that very much later in my Conclusion bit.
But you may have missed it.
You win this time, Kalnaur. This time... ::strokes fluffy cat::
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Both Dagon and The Ninth Bastion are perfect for a campaign I'm putting together. The Exodus Knife would be a good way to provide a safe haven for my PCs in the game world I'm creating too. So many awsome things in this thread for me to use. Thanks everyone! I have to get writing now...
Why you may have missed it: Dagon is nested within the Demogorgon blocks, and could be construed as a simple minion by a quick reading when he is in fact anything but a minion.
What makes it so special: It is fricking Dagon. In all his Cthulionic Glory. He is the oldest of Demon Lords (how's that for flavor?) and unlike most demons who only want destruction for destruction's sake, Dagon seems to have a plan. Trying to figure out what that plan is would probably induce madness, but hey, there it is. Hell, he even fights followers of Vecna for knowledge (an awesome hook for a less zealous PC follower of Vecna if there ever was one, and a good reason to use that recent Vecna article).
Conclusion: I think that people dismiss the D&D demons as engines of destruction, pure and simple, and while a fair amount of the time that may be true, there are always more subtle demons. Grazzt is one, Dagon is another. He's given even more importance in the Demonomicon, what with being an obyrith and all, but that's a tale ofr another time . . .
And if you read Demonomicon, you'll discover that Dagon is one of the Obryths (spelling?), along with Pazuzu and others, who are a group of demons plotting something even greater...
I actually mentioned that very much later in my Conclusion bit.
But you may have missed it.
You win this time, Kalnaur. This time... ::strokes fluffy cat::
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )
Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotesShow
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
Why you may have missed it: People seem to have stayed away from the peripheral Monster books (and really, this is to their detriment).
What makes it so special: This is an entire chapter of flavour on who what why and how the undead are the way they are. For those claiming to need flavour for their games, you will find plenty here, from the way the undead digestive system works to the dark psychological effects of becoming one of the undead. Tons of ways to make the players understand that they may be horrifying, but to the undead, the existence of mortals is the abomination.
Conclusion: A full and flavourful 20+ pages of text on the various natures of undeath, and strong visuals that can explain how, for example, swinging repeatedly through an insubstantial creature can disperse them, how the diet of the dead functions, and even how the different societies of the dead work. All in all, a creepy and flavourful addition to the D&D story, and a welcome companion to the upcoming "Heroes of Shadow".
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )
Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotesShow
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
Both Dagon and The Ninth Bastion are perfect for a campaign I'm putting together. The Exodus Knife would be a good way to provide a safe haven for my PCs in the game world I'm creating too. So many awsome things in this thread for me to use. Thanks everyone! I have to get writing now...
I've won. Just as planned . . .
Indeed, you have won. Now it is my players who will have to deal with the consequences
True, but this thread wasn't created only to give the DMs ammunition. I'm skimming back through my books looking for a few powers that sound cool, even if char-op claims them to be too situational. After all, too situational is simply the player and the DM not communicating with each other enough.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )
Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotesShow
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
I'm skimming back through my books looking for a few powers that sound cool, even if char-op claims them to be too situational.
In the topic of stuff Char Op does not like, I would like to mention Precise Strike and Armor-Piercing Thrust (both lv 3 fighter encounters from heroric) Why you might have missed them :Char op does not like because they only do 1[w]+ STR damage, Why are they special : they both increase your accuracy, and can make landing any secondary on hit effects from things like your weapons/feats/etc much easier conclusion : No real idea what to say here, but I have always like these accuracy increasing powers, even though allot of peple complain about them, then complain about missing to often without the "feat taxes" though a potential bonus of 7+ to hit in epic (starting with a 16 and bumped to a 24) can make langin a crucial ridder from a secondary source much easier.
