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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 3:38PM
#51
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Anything magical about level 5 and 7 here?good idea).
See that post or the first post(They are edited to the same). There is a link for example degredation. At that level is when they fall behind. You can also see the same comment from several posters here.
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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 3:50PM
#52
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I need suggestions on the AC degredation fix and on proof of an initiative degredation. For PCs they get half level + dex mod. Monsters seem to get half level and ____? If someone has some math they could link me to that'd be great.
I'm looking for real analysis of the issues and proposed fixes, not simply "this is how I do/don't handle it - my players are ok"
Monsters just get level to defenses. Not 1/2 level+anything. A level 30 standard should have 44 AC, because 30+14 is 44.
AC degrading by 2 doesn't really have a solution outside of modifying Masterwork; though I'm not sure it is an issue. And "fixing" it might raise standard Defender AC to 50, which while not absurdly high should require more investment then it would.
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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 3:54PM
#53
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And "fixing" it might raise standard Defender AC to 50, which while not absurdly high should require more investment then it would.
That's actually my concern and I'll leave it alone pretty much. Edited the first post~
Alcestis: So how exactly do you handle a Avenger/Paly/Cleric? It seems you're saying they have a main hand and you treat their holy symbol as the same modifier.
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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 4:01PM
#54
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Alcestis: So how exactly do you handle a Avenger/Paly/Cleric? It seems you're saying they have a main hand and you treat their holy symbol as the same modifier.
Implement attacks, by RAW, do not actually require an Implement (unless they say they do, some Wizard powers actually say they require Orb/Staff/etc). Inherent bonuses increase all your attacks. So if you have an Implement Attack just cast it and it'll be identical to having a +x Implement on you, even though you don't.
There isn't an elegant fix to it, really. The current situation with all the feats/items/MC options is probably as good as it is going to get.
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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 4:05PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2008
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1) the NAD fall 7 points without and 4 points with stat bumb. This is however not true if you consider item bonus. To not further tax items as well I decided to
level 7: +1 item bonus to all NAD (its important to type this bonus to prevent items to improve it even further)
level 11: 1x free NAD boost feat (can be +2 on one or paragon defense, maybe even improved swordmage warding)
level 17: +2 item bonus to all NADs
level 21: free retraining to a superior version
level 27: +3 item bonus to all NADs
+2 epic defense, +3 item -> -2 for one/two NADs, and +1 for the NADs with bumped stat.
2) for to hit I give out
+1 feat bonus to hit on all attacks at 5, +2 at 15 and +3 at 25.
3) everyone gets one free melee traing feat or intelligent blademaster.
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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 5:48PM
#56
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@Alcestis: I know how it works with inherent bonuses. I'm asking how to fix it in a standard magic item game. 1) the NAD fall 7 points without and 4 points with stat bumb. This is however not true if you consider item bonus.
NADs fall by 4 and lowest falls by 7 - even counting the neck slot. Other bonuses like feet head and waist for ref/fort/con should be just that - a bonus. NADs fall by 4 and the fix provided makes them fall by 1. So at best case the characters gain a +10% defense as they'd have 2 above normal, but it is definitely not a tax - which is the goal of this fix. Only defenders will go to the length of getting the items.
3) everyone gets one free melee traing feat or intelligent blademaster.
This is unbalanced. Wizards and casters should not be able to melee/ranged basic with thier main stat. They get power through their spells, etc. The reason behind giving this to melee characters is as such: Take a Battlemind - He can hit a mob all day long with his weapon, but then once it's a basic attack he misses every time. Same this with an avenger, a chaladin, and many many other classes. Now giving this to casters does not follow the logic. Casters use spells and miss with their staffs - their spellpower should not allow them to hit with staves.
Hence why I added the melee attack requirement.
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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 5:58PM
#57
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That is my solution, give out Inherent Bonuses to MID classes. You could also, in theory, just have all Implement/Weapon attacks go off the Enhancement of your highest Enhancement... but that presents other issues.
Worth noting that Inherent bonuses breaks powers that do not have the Weapon/Implement keyword and therefore self-scale (Dragonbreath at 2/4/6 and the ones that correctly account for Expertise at 3/6/9). DB at Epic with Inherent bonuses can be 15 (1/2 level)+6 (Inherent in the power)+9 (Stat)+6 (Inherent Bonus) = 36 to hit. A Dragonborn Dragon Sorc could get that up to +39-45 to hit trivially.
If this were to be a truly global errata or fix this has to be accounted for (and should be accounted for natively in the Inherent Bonus rules in any case).
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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 7:15PM
#58
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#7: I have build specific feat patches. For example, my Hide Armor Expertise is "For purposes of AC only while in Hide, treat your Dex modifier as 3/4/6", IIRC. Something along those lines, anyway. It's still primal only, but it makes Hide armor scale right.
I hope for your sake that that's a mistake. It seems odd that Hide armor should protect more than Plate:
AC@Level 30
Base - 10
1/2 Level - 15
Barbarian Class Feature - 3
Elderhide Armor - 5
Enhancement Bonus - 6
Kilpatds' Feat - 6
Second Skin - 2
=47 AC
| 10 |
Base 10 |
| 15 |
1/2 Level |
| 3 |
Class Feature |
| 5 |
Elderhide |
| 6 |
Enhancement |
| 6 |
Kilpatds' Feat |
| 2 |
Second Skin |
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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 7:26PM
#59
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....For his sake? Also Kiltpads is actually familiar with game math, his feat is fine. Depending on how it is worded you can't actually take Second Skin, which would put it at 46 AC... which is baseline for melee strikers! Funny how that works out.
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2 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2011 - 7:31PM
#60
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....For his sake? Also Kiltpads is actually familiar with game math, his feat is fine. Depending on how it is worded you can't actually take Second Skin, which would put it at 46 AC... which is baseline for melee strikers! Funny how that works out.
45AC. Fair enough, but in that case it's not just a feat patch, it's fixing a feat tax as well, because you no longer need the other feat, which seems to go against the "no defensive feats for free" argument he posed.
Btw: I don't think many strikers have 46AC at level 30 with one feat 
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