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2 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2011 - 6:01AM #11
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,482

Apr 7, 2011 -- 5:05PM, Raconteur02 wrote:

Feb 19, 2011 -- 10:14AM, mellored wrote:

Can't do genasi.  The soul feat only gives you the power, not the manifistation, nor do i see a good way to get psychic resist.


You can. Just take the Extra Manifestation feat. It doesn't currently (?) have Elemental Manifestation as a prerequisite.


Yea, i noticed that later too, but quori backlash is simply better.

Apr 7, 2011 -- 7:18PM, Squad wrote:

This build reminds me of the Swordmage|Warlock build that uses Hellish Rebuke and Aegis of Assault to put the marked enemy in a catch-22 situation, where the enemy is basically going to be hit with an out-of-turn attack.  I noticed the only two powers you bothered mentioning were Hellish Rebuke and Lightning Rush, so I wondered if you had that in mind.  LR only has a range of 5, versus the Aegis range of 10.  But LR can redirect the attack to you, while AoA does nothing to stop the attack.  You also have to wait until 7th level to pull it off, but it might be worth it to develop the build that way.  Just an idea anyways.


It could certinaly be a nice build (edrich strike for nice control), but the whole point of this one is to deal damage when it get's hit.  Nothing forces enemies to attack you better then lightning rush.

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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2011 - 2:16AM #12
mhbjarkistef
Date Joined: Sep 6, 2010
Posts: 998
*subscribe*

Look at my Playable Illithid, my Monster Generating excel file , my Lifestealer in progresss (Heroic tier almost complete!) , our Improved Orc, our Improving Kenku and our Improving Duergar
Also, take a look at my friend's Improved Minotaur, Gadren's amazing Arcane Archer and of course the Avatar Project
More links! Qube's Block Builder, Classless D&D and the characters I've created using the classless system.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2011 - 5:38AM #13
LiamDeclan
Date Joined: Nov 5, 2005
Posts: 341
I would look at MC'ing Wizard for this 2nd lvl Utility:


Guardian Blades


Three spectral blades appear around you, floating in a ring that wards away your foes.


Daily        Arcane, Fear
Minor Action      Personal


Effect:  Until the end of the encounter or until you become unconscious, each  enemy adjacent to you that makes an attack roll takes force damage equal  to your Intelligence modifier. No enemy can take this damage more than  once per turn.


Not sure if you MC wizard if it also lets you use Wizard implements? If so grab Staff Expertise so you don't get OA's on ranged attacks and a reach extended on your melee attacks.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2011 - 9:40AM #14
Reg06
Date Joined: Jul 14, 2008
Posts: 3,850
An ED in HoS has a capstone feature where an enemy who hits you has to save or take half damage of whatever they deal you. Pretty much the penultimate retributive damage feature.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last
Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2011 - 12:01PM #15
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,482

Apr 12, 2011 -- 9:40AM, Reg06 wrote:

An ED in HoS has a capstone feature where an enemy who hits you has to save or take half damage of whatever they deal you. Pretty much the penultimate retributive damage feature.


The current ED is adding up to 85 damage, and at 21.

The other would only add about 40 (base) x .5 (half) X .5 (save) = 10  (unless you can do something to the saves).  Which really isn't that much.

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2011 - 1:03PM #16
Reg06
Date Joined: Jul 14, 2008
Posts: 3,850
Ah yes, which is what I get for not reading the whole build before posting. 
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going Last
Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
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3 months ago  ::  Mar 13, 2013 - 3:34PM #17
pinkisthenewred
Date Joined: Jan 1, 2013
Posts: 548
If you would do this with Morninglord+Radiant One, every instance of passive damage should ping radiant vulnerability seperately, since Radiant One's bonus damage is so beautifully broken, right?

Bonus question: Do Rings of circling fangs stack like this?

Thanks for sending me here, Mellored. Brought many new ideas to my mind.


Edit: I just saw that you already built it with Radiant One. Stacking radiant and if possible fire vul would be overkill, tho, if it works as i'm assuming above. 
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3 months ago  ::  Mar 13, 2013 - 4:11PM #18
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,482

Mar 13, 2013 -- 3:34PM, pinkisthenewred wrote:

If you would do this with Morninglord+Radiant One, every instance of passive damage should ping radiant vulnerability seperately, since Radiant One's bonus damage is so beautifully broken, right?

Bonus question: Do Rings of circling fangs stack like this?

Thanks for sending me here, Mellored. Brought many new ideas to my mind.


Edit: I just saw that you already built it with Radiant One. Stacking radiant and if possible fire vul would be overkill, tho, if it works as i'm assuming above. 


Avenging haunt can be replaced for morning lord easy enough.

Yes, rings stack.  Each a seperate instance.

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 22, 2013 - 11:43AM #19
pinkisthenewred
Date Joined: Jan 1, 2013
Posts: 548
Mellored, do you (or anybody else) have an idea how to force enemies to attack a Retaliator-like build? Everything seems like christmas compared to actually attacking a vulnerability-optimized Retaliator. The only thing i've got in mind is a (quite costly) certain method Zathris showed me to make clumped enemies unable to shift at-will, so they would provoke an OA at least (If you isolate them from your allies, of course and if they can't teleport). Anything else?
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 23, 2013 - 6:01PM #20
Ogg-Mosh
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 77

Feb 18, 2011 -- 3:48PM, mellored wrote:

Doing as much damage when hit as possible.

If she hits someone with hellish rebuke, and that creature makes a melee attack which (dazed, dominates, or deals psycic damage) and reduces her to 0 or fewer...
The Retaliator deals... Show


30 thunder (Stormhawk Vengence)
8 fire (white lotus riposte)
17 (Quori Backlash)
2d6+14 fire (Hellish Rebuke)
10 force (Ring of circling fangs)
10 force (Ring of circling fangs)
10 force (Ring of circling fangs + Mummified hand)
10 force (Ring of circling fangs + Many finged gloves)
6 (Pact blade longsword)
6 (Pact blade wrist razor)
6 necrotic (Evil Eye Fetish)
1d10 (Iron of Spite)
+ a free attack (white lotus master riposte)
+7 fire and radiant for each (12) = 84 (Radiant One)
223.5 auto-damage (+ another hellish rebuke).

You can probably expect about 1/2 (e.g. 100) on average.




I think I'm missing something here, but I don't see how you're getting this to work.
If you're reduced to 0 or fewer, you're still dazed, even though you're conscious and have a standard action (or more from feats). So, if you're dazed, how do you get the WLMR immediate action, or the Lightning Rush immediate action, or generally get the build to work? If you're relying on it working from turn 1, you haven't got them cursed, and you're neither bloodied nor below 0, so most of your additional sources of damage don't work. It seems to me that you're going to have different elements working in different situations - although they're all awesome elements! - rather than be able to stack all the things you have listed. I'm not sure that being below 0 is actually ideal for this build, even though a lot of elements rely on it.

Of course, once you get Superior Will which you have listed at 24 you have a chance of not being dazed, so if that's your answer do you think the build would actually work in play before then?

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